Anyone with experience with the Horus HDMR scope and TReMoR2 reticle?

[1stmarine]

Hi folks,
I am looking at this new scope that will allow me fast correction and follow-up from the 6.5BR AR15 platform and I want to know
if anyone has any experience with the new Horus HDMR scope and the new Tremor2 reticle.
The whole thing seems very well thought out and while the system will not be mainly dedicated to any competition or tactical matches we like
to shoot the steel at 800 to 1100 yards occasionally when we get a chance

http://www.horusvision.com/hdmr.php

Thanks.

 

[pdd614]

I would rather have the g2dmr reticle. It's alot less cluttered. Horus seems to try to put as many markings into there reticles as possible. When all you really need is 1/2 and whole mil marks across the vertical and horizontal plane. An uncluttered field of view becomes an asset when spotting misses, especially in less than perfect conditions.

 

[chaser_2332]

the bushnell HDMR is a very nice scope for the money, but i agree the G2 retical is the way to go.

 

[taliv]

some people use them well (not many that i know of) but I am not a fan. i have one of the bushnell HDMR with the G2 reticle. it's pretty sweet. it's like a horus, but more useable

 

[pdd614]

On a closer second look, what are the heavier dots in the tree supposed to be? They aren't in mils that's for sure. So the Tremor2 looks like a mixture of a mil xmas tree reticle, and some sort of mystery ballistic reticle. Like I said before, they are trying to cram too much into one reticle. I wouldn't use that reticle if someone gave it to me.

Stick to the simpler g2 reticle. Horus is ridiculous.

 

[1stmarine]

The central grid is still in USMC mils.
What Todd Hodnett says ( same creator of the H58 and H59) is that the tremor2, although it seems busy it is not busy at all and shooters can estimate range and hold for elevation and wind in a few seconds.
It seems busy to me but I guess there is a learning curve with all things and might or might not work in the end but if you do not research and maybe try will never know for sure.
Also I don't know how good is the online representation of the stadia.
With this holdover saturday night fever I know Pride and Fowler were hired by Zeiss to build their Z1000 and while it seems a so-so design I tried this and it worked great but it was in the 2FF so you have to play with their software and magnification to adjust to the closest setting to match your trajectory. That would work too for the AR but I thin the 2FP adds another variable that I don't want so the horus seems
more versatile and flexible for multiple load use.

 

[1stmarine]

A pic with the reticle "explained" courtesy of another fellow shooter from TX...

 

[pdd614]

No offense, 1stmarine, but the h59 doesn't do much for me either. At least it appears to be only a mil reticle, and not some bastard ballistic/mil reticle. I have never needed two mils of elevation and 7 mils of wind, which is what the h59 provides. I will take an uncluttered sight picture over that grid.

On the Tremor2, why would you mix ballistic holdovers and mils? You would need two separate units chart. One for elevation in mils, and the other would be which one of these dots equals my wind at x mph. That doesn't sound very flexible or versatile to me.

Even in the reticle "explained" pic above. It still doesn't explain the ballistic dots or there random spacing.

 

[pdd614]

Here is a better view of the G2dmr. It doesn't need much explaining.


And I will throw in the reticle I use the most. Needs even less explaining.

 

[taliv]

this is the reticle i bought today in a new S&B. compare it to the horus. even this reticle is a bit too cluttered for me, but it lets you flash mil something, and detail mil it. with the S&B knobs, i don't do holdovers that much. I mean, I do and i practice them, I just prefer to dial unless I know i have several targets to engage in a very brief time.

see how fine the lines are even at 25x? follow the link below to see them at lower resolutions. they're quite hard to see. think about trying to pick out those little dots and hashes in a horus against a real background like a woodline or scrub. i'd recommend you put your hands on one and look through it before plunking down your $.

http://www.finnaccuracy.com/sb_pm2_MSR_special_reticle_en.html

 

[pdd614]

Taliv, I like that MSR reticle better than the P4F, but not because of the extra grids. I like that they put in half mil markings on the center cross hair. That always bugged me about the p4. They put half mil marks everywhere but the center. And that so happens to be where most of my wind calls fall, between center and the first mil.

 

[taliv]

exactly, and they at least put a few labels on it, every 10mil, which is better than nothing

 

[1stmarine]

you are right the G2 seems more reasonable but I want to see if I can research the other one and see if it starts to make sense somehow.
The PST and Razor are also great options but in this case fast holdover is the objective.

 

[1stmarine]

Taliv,
Thanks for the great info everyone. I like several of the S&B but I was hoping to keep the AR within budget. Although it is pretty accurate & well below MOA in the end is not bolt action accuracy and budget. And I get your point, always try something whenever you can.
Unfortunately none of the boys has the tremor around here.
Lets see if we find more info. It has to have some value added one would think.
BTW I don't like the location of the numerals in the tremor. They should take note how nice the Germans do it.

 

[1stmarine]

When looking at the horus H25 it seems pretty comprehensive for general use yet not so cluttered. In their simulation looks a pretty fine grid so it doesn't seem to interfere too much with sight picture.

 

[taliv]

i think that's far worse than the first one. it's several giant steps in the wrong direction. maybe it will work for you, but it would drive me nuts.

 

[chaser_2332]

to each his own, but an open mil-hash i think has more benifit than the advertised quick holdover of a horus system. In the long range game there are going to be misses i would rather have a less obstruced view to be able to see the miss and make a correction. IMHO its much more precise to dial a shot than to try and hold.....ex can you hold .2mils high at 1000yds plus hold a wind call. i would much rather dial my known dope and hold wind using the retical.

 

[1stmarine]

What I am worry about is not the complexity but how fine the lines and marks in the stadia are so they do not interfere too much with the picture.
In the little representation tool they have online they look acceptable but there is no real telling about how the feel unless you look through one of them.

Please keep in mind I am looking for 99.9% holdover something new for me to try with an AR15 special caliber and a bit of a departure and challenge at the same time from the traditional manual correction.

This is the link to the little simulation they have online with the multipurpose reticle. This goes into some of the mil mil models (I think)...
http://horusvision.com/img/hrsgame.swf

 

[pdd614]

Everything you want, in a reticle, can be done quite easily with the g2 reticle. But I agree with the masses, you are headed in the wrong direction. A reticle doesn't need to be complicated to be effective. Then again, if you are just dead set on a Horus, knock yourself out. Who am I to judge?

 

[Driftertank]

My Vortex Viper PST has the EBR-1 reticle, in the 1st focal plane, only in MOA, mostly because i think in inches and while not a direct conversion, MOA/inches is still close enough to get me on target with a minimum of mental arithmetic.

How is it for making corrections? Good enough that, with a 200yd zero, i made a 350yd lead-and-holdover shot on a running coyote not too long ago, snapshot from unsupported kneeling position.

Of course, that is the raison d'etre for holdovers using metered reticles: shots on targets which present a limited opportunity to engage, or change range too rapidly to properly dial a solution.

I initially thought even the EBR-1 reticle was a bit too busy, but in practice it makes for rapid acquisition, range estimation, and correction without obstructing you target image, even in low light, or making it easy to "get lost" counting your way through marks. As an all-round range and field scope, i think it's brilliant.

 

[1stmarine]

Driftertank,
Hi, the trick would be when you start hitting the 700, 800 and beyond with heavy loads and 20mph wind. Then there is too much guessing to do holdover with that reticle so one needs to go back to dial even if one dials lets say 18 MOA and hold the rest.
No doubt the PST offers amazing quality and value. I also use them but I wanted to see how a "99.9%" holdover would work and pros and cons.
Hopefully someone that is using the horus can report some feedback.
Cheers.

 

[Driftertank]

Personally, at known distances on a stationary (or slow moving) target past about 500yd i'd rather dial in. Different purposes, different techniques. But temper this with the knowledge that my rifle is an autoloader built with a broadform DMR/target/hunting intent, and not a precision long-range match or benchrest rifle. My effective range, in my mind, is approximately 800yds, and that assumes a target roughly 18"x18", with emphasis on rapid target acquisition and ranging.

For more specialized purposes the Horus is probably quite good, once the user is trained up on it.

 

[aubie515]

I have the HDMR H58 reticle and I like it...as with others have said...before I bought it, I thought it would be "too busy" but honestly I've gotten used to it...I find the reticle to useful if you have unknown distances...IMO, it would be a huge PITA to have to dial for each shot.

 

[taliv]

just so you know, you do NOT have to dial for each shot with even the regular mil-hash crosshairs like the P4F.

holding "off in space" isn't hard at all. when you actually go to start shooting long range, you will quickly realize that you can use the objects that appear in your scope as hold points.

for example, i find it easy to work in terms relative to the target. terms like "hold left" (meaning left edge) and "favor right" (meaning aim halfway between center and right edge) do exactly that. if they need to adjust a lot, you can say in terms of the target width too. for example, "hold 1 target width left" to correct them onto the target.

point is, there are lots of ways to skin the cat.

 

[1stmarine]

Taliv,
I hear you. There are many ways to skin a cat that is for sure.
I am going to give it a try just to see if I can get faster corrections and follow up with the AR. That's all there is to it, just something new to try.