Apartment lease ban on guns California

[RoadkingLarry]

HKUSP45C - Where in the constitution does it say I can't discriminate against someone for race, creed or gender? Where does the concept of "protected class" come from? Is it because I have a RIGHT not to be discriminated against? something called "civil rights"

Or are you claiming that the laws you espouse as trumping natural rights protected by the Bill of Rights are not consitutional.

 

[brighamr]

To the origional poster - I lived in Davis for 4 years while my wife went to college. Tell your daughter that 99% of the rentals there will barge in without notice (my favorite excuse was "we heard there were mice in the building"). Being young, I never sued over it but I should have. Long story short, she should keep her guns out of site 24/7.

Davis is essentially "mini-berkely". If you don't mind, can you type verbatim what the "no gun" policy says? the reason I ask is that my last rental stated "no unlawful discharge of firearms on the premises".... not exactly saying I couldn't own a firearm, just that I can use the parking lot as a shooting range.

 

[K3]

If I don't want you to bring something on my property, you can't. This is exactly as it should be. You have no right to be secure in your possessions when conducting business on my property.

Will you then provide said security?

 

[MrAnteater]

I have a hard time with the concept of restricting what property a person can bring into their home when they are renting. As long as the weapon is not stolen or illegal, how can it be restricted? I would make the exception for things that will destroy the property such as cigarette smoke or animals. But an inanimate object such as a firearm? I would think the 2nd amendment supersedes any terms in an apartment lease.

If I'm a landlord can I tell my tenant he is not allowed to have any knives, even in the kitchen, because they are weapons too?

The whole thing is stupid.

 

[carebear]

If the lease says "no weapons" and you sign it, and you then bring weapons in, it doesn't matter if the landlord can effectively enforce it. By breaking the contract you willingly entered you will have made yourself an oath-breaker, a damn dirty liar.

Does the concept of honoring one's word mean nothing any more?

You pledge at marriage to not cheat, but your wife can't watch you 24/7 to enforce it, so breaking that oath is okay I guess?

You pledge at enlistment to obey orders, but your superiors can't supervise you 24/7 so I guess smoking dope and taking a nap on watch are just fine then?

What childish selfishness.

You do not have to rent from a landlord who wants no guns on the property he owns and is allowing you to occupy, you can go elsewhere.

If you don't like the rules, don't go into the deal planning to break them like a petulent child, be a grown-up and go somewhere else, do business with people whos rules you agree with.

Or man up and assume the risks of property ownership yourself.

For all those who think your right's trump any one elses. Try walking onto someone's lawn or into a store and exercising any right you can think of, speech, worship, it makes no difference.

Step one, you are warned to leave by the property owner.

Step two, police are called and warn you to leave a second time.

If you continue to refuse to leave,

Step three, you are arrested and forcibly removed from the property. Why? You have no right to be there except by consent of the property owner to engage in business conducted by the property owner.

For goodness sake people, take a class or read a book and learn what rights really are. What you describe is the modern entitlement mentality, not our Constitutional system.

 

[harbingerm]

Concealed means concealed. I'd keep my guns anyway. But be careful and really lock them up and don't leave ANYTHING firearm related lying around. I don't know about other states, but when I rented an apartment in Texas, I got busted for having an "illegal" cat that I'd adopted. Turns out the damned maintenance man outed me when he came in to change out the A/C filter. No warning, no notice left, nothing. I only found out when I inquired as to how they found out. That guy could have gone through all my stuff for all I know.

 

[357WheelGun]

HKUSP45C - Where in the constitution does it say I can't discriminate against someone for race, creed or gender? Where does the concept of "protected class" come from? Is it because I have a RIGHT not to be discriminated against? something called "civil rights"

You have a right to keep and bear arms. You do not have a right to be on another person's private property. A person who says that in order to be on his property you must not have guns is restricting your ability to enter his private property, not your ability to have guns. There's a difference under the law and under the Constitution.

Also, as has been pointed out, the Constitution limits the powers of the Federal Government only. Private individuals are not subject to the constitution's restrictions, that's what the US Legal Code is for.

Just as you can prohibit someone from coming onto your property and putting up a bunch of "Vote for Hillary" signs (hey, it's their right to free speech, isn't it?), so too can another person prohibit you from entering his property while armed.

 

[harbingerm]

You have a right to keep and bear arms. You do not have a right to be on another person's private property.

I'm no lawyer by any means, but if I am paying to be on the property and live in it doesn't it make me the person in direct control of it? I ask this since this was originally about apartments and you have to pay rent. I understand about violating the lease if no guns are allowed, but many states have laws regarding the "possessor" of a property. This includes motel rooms, too. In many states, if you can't carry legally because it's not allowed and/or you have no permit, you can still carry legally in your place of "residence".

 

[biscuitninja]

As owner of several properties, I can put ALL sorts of restrictions on you. But once you're in, its VERY difficult to get you out. As long as your son/daughter is safe with then there should be no issues.

Now the downside, the reason they are putting that on the lease is that they want to limit there exposure to negligent discharges. Can you imagine what kind of risk you pose if your gun goes off in packed housing? Not only are they going to sue everybody and their brother... they are going after the deep pocket first.... The land owner....

Keep a safe and keep it out of sight.
I'd also keep an airsoft just in case anybody gets the idea to inspect.
good luck
-bix

 

[Feud]

If the lease says "no weapons" and you sign it, and you then bring weapons in, it doesn't matter if the landlord can effectively enforce it. By breaking the contract you willingly entered you will have made yourself an oath-breaker, a damn dirty liar.

Does the concept of honoring one's word mean nothing any more?

+1

 

[harbingerm]

Now the downside, the reason they are putting that on the lease is that they want to limit there exposure to negligent discharges. Can you imagine what kind of risk you pose if your gun goes off in packed housing? Not only are they going to sue everybody and their brother... they are going after the deep pocket first.... The land owner....

Can you provide a real world example of that? I've never heard of one. The person that had the ND is responsible and not the land owner. Seriously, has a restaurant or store ever been successfully sued and a payout made for a shooting that happened inside and an innocent got hit/killed by either a lawful carrier or a criminal? Did Luby's in Killeen, TX get sued...or McDonalds...or, more recently, will Wendy's be sued? Never heard about any lawsuits against the businesses. Same goes for pizza chains that have drivers hurt/killed because they have a "no guns" policy. I've read where drivers have carried anyway and shot someone holding them up and never heard about the criminal and/or family suing Domino's or the like.

 

[yinyangdc]

missed the part about the federal law regarding protected classes. It really doesn't have anything to do with the Constitution, it's the force of federal law at work in those cases.

Yeah, that just about sums up our status today.

 

[Zundfolge]

What I'd do is cross out the section forbidding firearms, and send it back to the landlord. If he accepts it than you're fine.

Often times when you're sitting down with the guy and you have a check written out to him in your hand, he'll gladly change the terms of the lease.


The lease isn't written in stone until you've signed it.

 

[Bailey Boat]

I haven't read this entire thread because most of what is said is BS from folks that don't have a clue.........

Does anyone remember when the Chicago Housing Authority tried the same thing and NRA shoved it where the sun can't shine. Since then the fed's have written into the FAIR HOUSING reg's that a landlord cannot infringe upon the rights of ANY individual, for ANY reason. That includes the constitutional right to keep and bear arms..... For those of you that don't believe, check the Federal Register, Fair Housing and Landlords.........

If a resident of a rental property feels that the landlord is infringing upon their rights contact your local HUD office for advise.................

 

[harbingerm]

Exactly, Bailey, exactly... If you're payin' for it, you can do whatever you want as long as it isn't illegal or destructive to the premisis. Last I checked, owning firearms and having them in your place of residence, whether you own or rent, wasn't illegal. I don't own my own house yet because the bank still owns most of it. Would it be right for the bank to tell me I couldn't have firearms? Of course not, so why should a landlord be allowed to?

 

[ArmedBear]

In California, you can legally have guns on or in any property that you legally own or occupy.

That means you can have guns in your apartment. You might be evicted, but that's the worst thing that can happen to you. And in California, it takes a few months to do it, so you can stop paying rent, move out your stuff and live there rent-free for a while.

Landlords know this and are therefore unlikely to evict you unless they absolutely have to.

This clause probably exists only because the walls are paper-thin and the landlord wants to escape liability for any overpenetration.

Just have her keep firearms out of public sight. This is a good idea anyway; you never know who or what lives next door.

 

[mekender]

To put it shortly, the Bill of Rights does not apply to anyone who is a guest on my property. You have only the protection of the law when you're here.

if you are leasing your property to someone else, you forfeit the ability to decide what they can and cannot do in part... they are not a guest, they are a lawful occupant and thus housing and landlord tenant laws come into play...

and im sorry, but until you create the empire of stupid and declare independence from the US, the bill of rights most definitely does apply... yes even on your own property

 

[Chris Rhines]

Zundfolge is correct.

The one time I rented an apartment with a no-guns clause in the lease, I simply crossed out the offending clause, signed and dated it, and handed it back to the secretary at the rental office. The landlord apparently had no problem with it. If your daughter's landlord does object, she needs to either get rid of her guns, or find a different apartment.

- Chris

 

[Feud]

That includes the constitutional right to keep and bear arms..... For those of you that don't believe, check the Federal Register, Fair Housing and Landlords...

I searched, but as far as I can tell the Fair Housing Act only deals with discrimination based upon renting to begin with, not with the provisions that a landlord may require in the lease.

Could you be a little more specific on where I can find evidence to support your claim? If it exists I would like to point it out to my landlord next time the contract is renewed.

 

[harbingerm]

Folks, this isn't like banning pets or children. There's no constitutional right to have either one of those. However, there IS a delineated right to keep and bear arms, especially at one's place of residence whether it's owned or rented. A lot of states extend the definition of "residence" to include personally operated vehicles. Would anyone have a problem with a rental contract stating firearms couldn't be carried/transported in a rental car? I know I would.

 

[budiceman]

I'm a landlord in Minnesota! I cant say a thing about it if they can legally own one! That sounds like more Cal. crap!

 

[357WheelGun]

I'm a landlord in Minnesota! I cant say a thing about it if they can legally own one! That sounds like more Cal. crap!

This is not about whether they can legally own a firearm. It's about whether they are allowed by the property owner to continue their lease if they have a firearm on the property. It is absolutely stunning to me that more people do not see this crystal-clear distinction.

The landlord cannot make it a criminal offense for them to have a firearm. However, if the tenant has a firearm on the premises, it would constitute a breach of contract and the landlord would have legal cause to evict the tenant. The tenant would not be criminally liable for anything, but would be subject to the civil penalties resultant from breach of contract. (Namely being evicted from the leased property.)

An apartment lease is a contract. If you sign it, you are agreeing to of the terms and conditions thereof. It is an established legal precedent that on can sign away rights through a contract (e.g. when one signs a non-compete agreement or a confidentiality agreement with an employer or when a photographer sells or licenses a photograph to a stock agency). If you sign a lease that has a no firearms clause and subsequently violate that clause, you have broken the lease and can legally be evicted. The firearms cannot be confiscated, however, and owning the firearms themselves remains legal, you have simply voided your contractual permission to occupy the premises. The instant you bring the firearm onto the leased property, you have violated the lease and are no longer lawfully occupying the property.

 

[ArmedBear]

The landlord cannot make it a criminal offense for them to have a firearm. However, if the tenant has a firearm on the premises, it would constitute a breach of contract and the landlord would have legal cause to evict the tenant. The tenant would not be criminally liable for anything, but would be subject to the civil penalties resultant from breach of contract. (Namely being evicted from the leased property.)

Exactly. So it's like playing your radio too loud. I wouldn't let it stop me from having guns. Just don't wave them around, which you shouldn't be doing anyway in an apartment complex where your neighbor might be a drug dealer. The consequences are minimal, and in California, an eviction notice means "You can now live here rent-free for 3 months," so you won't be evicted if you don't bother anyone or damage the property, no matter what provisions of the lease you break. That's reality. Money talks, bull**** walks. I can't even tell you how many of such provisions I broke as a tenant; I never hurt anyone and I left the property nicer than I found it. Eviction was never a concern.

I have no moral problem with "breaking the lease" if I'm not doing anything to hurt anyone in any way.

Why do people worry about this stuff so much?

 

[357WheelGun]

I don't own my own house yet because the bank still owns most of it. Would it be right for the bank to tell me I couldn't have firearms? Of course not, so why should a landlord be allowed to?

The bank does not own your home. The bank holds the home in collateral for the money they have lent you. This is a distinct difference. You are the legal owner of your home regardless of whether you have paid it off or not, the bank merely holds the right to confiscate the house should you fail to honor your debt.

The landlord is the legal owner of his property. The tenant is someone whose lawful presence is conditional upon fulfilling the obligations of the contract he signed at the beginning of the lease.

I realise that this appears to be splitting hairs, but the colloquial definitions that we use every day are simply not applicable to the legal system.

 

[lanternlad1]

I would suggest that the daughter should have ONE concealable gun, and take it with her wherever she goes. If she's searched while not there, it won't be there, and can't be confiscated or stolen. It will be where it needs to be - with her, protecting her life. The Declaration of Independence calls for the freedom of 1) life, 2) liberty and 3) the pursuit of happiness. Can't have 2 or 3 without 1. I don't care what a lease calls for, my money is as green as anyones', and if they accept it, I'll do as I please in MY home - thank you very much.