AR-15/M-16: How soldiers hold it?

[Remander]

I notice that soldiers in pics often hold their rifles/carbines with sling around neck (or sometimes w/o sling), with barrel pointed down to the left, with right hand on grip, with right wrist in what looks to be a somewhat severe-looking downward angle.

I've never had any training on the use of an AR-15/M-16 for combat, so I'd like to hear from those who are in the know.

Please explain (1) the proper technique for holding the rifle in that manner and (2) the reasons/advantages for it.

It looks like it would hurt after a while to hold it like that.

Thanks for any info on the topic.

P.S.: I'm NOT criticizing the hold, so don't try to start a debate with me on the issue. I am just genuinely interested in learning something, so please share.

 

[PvtPyle]

Keep in mind most folks are right handed. Thats why you see the majority of the pics with people holding it in their right hand.

(1) the proper technique for holding the rifle in that manner and

You just hold it. Nobody really cares how you do it, everyone has their own style. But the reason you see most do it like that is because it is quick to bring into action.

(2) the reasons/advantages for it.

It is fast and gives you excellent control of the weapon for muzzle control and retention.

[QUOTEIt looks like it would hurt after a while to hold it like that.[/QUOTE]

You suck it up and drive on. And it is not that bad even after a few hours. The rifle does not weigh that much and the wrist is flexable. Besides that you are moving around as you scan. It is not like these guys are standing static in a guard post in a secure area. They look to be in the middle of it.

 

[Kontiki]

I always found this the most comfortable position to carry in, probably the reason that you see everyone doing it. Or maybe we just all think it looks cool But it is actually quite comfortable and you are able to rest some of the weight on your tacvest by catching the magazine on whatever purchase you can, alleviating the amount of weight you have to hold up for long periods of time ie. standing watch in a dust storm.

 

[DFW1911]

Hold it how it's comfortable and easy to deploy. Don't forget the comfortable and easy to deploy part of the first sentence.

Really, nobody will care or notice, and if they do, so what? Who's a** is on the line?

Hold it to shoot it.

DFW1911

 

[GRIZ22]

The hold in the photo was adapted from the way the Brits held rifles in Nortern Ireland when there was a lot of stuff going on there. The reason is although the weapon can be put into use quickly it's safe and non-threatening.

 

[gdvan01]

High speed....low drag.

 

[benEzra]

I notice that soldiers in pics often hold their rifles/carbines with sling around neck (or sometimes w/o sling), with barrel pointed down to the left, with right hand on grip, with right wrist in what looks to be a somewhat severe-looking downward angle.

That's a common low-ready position for rifles with pistol grips. It's the rifle equivalent of "position sul" for handguns; gun is pointed sharply down so as not to sweep anybody with your muzzle (and the guns are live, I'm sure). But you can raise the rifle and fire it in an instant.

If you think that is a severe wrist angle, try to pull off the same position with a straight-stocked rifle. Yes, it can be done, but your strong-side elbow sticks out like a chicken wing.

Please explain (1) the proper technique for holding the rifle in that manner and (2) the reasons/advantages for it.

Allows you to point a loaded rifle in a safe direction while being ready to shoot at an instant's notice. Hands are already in firing position, so all you have to do is lift the muzzle to fire.

As far as proper technique goes, I'd say they are doing it the way most would do it.

 

[AZTOY]

We are being trained to carry it that way. The Army is training soilders, now in close combat live fire exercise. (AKA SWAT)

The rifle starts in the low-ready position is brought up to the shoulder and you shoot no sights.(point & shoot )
We had to do this from 3 meters to 25 meters.


I stuck doing this with the SAW.:banghead:

 

[Langenator]

Aww...poor AZ.

My unit did it with M16/203 combos, then with SAWs. Every last swinging richard. If it's too heavy, find yourself some weights. Chicks dig broad shoulders.

Just a note: the sling on the soldier in the bottom photo mostly likely isn't around his neck-it's probablya single point strapped to the 'carry handle' on the back of his IBA.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Some folks call it position "SUL" or the "safety circle" depending on who you ask.

The end result is that the barrel is pointed in a safe direction but the weapon can be brought into play quickly and as teammates pass in front of each other they do not cover each other with the muzzle.

You can argue if it's really "SUL" or not since that's really for handguns.

Well, read the arguments yourself if you want; a link to some discussions with Clint Smith and some other folks about the thing.

http://www.seark.net/~jlove/sul.htm

It looks like it would hurt after a while to hold it like that.

Not if you are using the sling properly.

 

[ID_shooting]

One of those "this is the way the drill tought me so that is how I do it things." It was never really explained, just the way they had us do it. To this day, I find my self carrying hunting weapons in the same fashion when walking trails or pushing a field.

 

[Shifty]

IIRC they are teaching marines in CQB to use the full size m-16 with the rifle turned almost 90 degrees on its side, with the buttstock on/over the shoulder. makes the rifle easier to handle inside a building is what i remember the gunny saying.

 

[DRZinn]

Re: Position "sul"

After eight years in the infantry, I never heard it called anything at all. It's pretty instinctive if you have any awareness at all of where your muzzle is.

IIRC they are teaching marines in CQB to use the full size m-16 with the rifle turned almost 90 degrees on its side, with the buttstock on/over the shoulder. makes the rifle easier to handle inside a building is what i remember the gunny saying.

Yep. When recoil is low and the range is such to allow point-and-shoot accuracy, and your rifle is a little longer than you'd like it to be for CQB, it's a good tactic.

 

[rangerruck]

If you think about it, and yes I love the comment on the mag used as apoint of weight bearing, look how close and how fast it is to deploy from this position. All you really have to do is pivot up your front stock hand. EVerything else is allready in line, with the butt of the weapon allready in front of you , there is no need to bring your weapon out and forward, as with the old m16's, a2's and a3's.

 

[Ricky T]

Quote: "That's a common low-ready position for rifles with pistol grips. It's the rifle equivalent of "position sul" for handguns; gun is pointed sharply down so as not to sweep anybody with your muzzle (and the guns are live, I'm sure). But you can raise the rifle and fire it in an instant."

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's simply a low ready position, it keeps the muzzle pointing in a safe direction and weapon ready for deployment. We timed a class of 14 students in Paul Howe's 2 days carbine class, and the time to engage with a hit to the A zone at 10 yds. from the low ready ranged from 0.6 to 1 second.

As for comfort, I don't think it's very easy on the the forearm and wrist of the shooting hand, if you do it right. Try maintaining that position for 12 hours a day, you'll feel it.

If that's not a SUL version for the carbine, I don't know what is.