AR-15 Pseudo-Shorties - why?

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Geronimo45

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I've been lusting after ARs lately, and noticed a strange thing (even when not looking in the mirror).
I'm aware that a barrel's got to be 16 inches on a rifle to keep it from being a SBR. But why do they sell ARs with a 11.5 inch barrel and a five inch muzzle break? Is there any advantage to that setup over a normal 16" barrel? I understand that it's a legal way of having a short barrel, without (as far as I can see) any of the advantages of a short barrel (easier maneuverability).
 
It is non-functional, but it looks the part of a high-speed-low-drag kinda carbine.... In other words, it's done for purely cosmetic reasons.
 
Don't know how much, but it's about gotta make some difference. Bet the velocity of the round (a round that counts on velocity for fragmentation) drops significantly too though.
 
Gee. That's a good question with a good answer.

You may have heard it called the "Colt Commando" or the "XM-177/E1.

Or you could have heard it called the "CAR-15 Survival Rifle."

It's one of the most, if not the most, historical variant of the AR15/M16 family.
 
16" barrel + FH = longer than 16"
14.7" barrel + pinned FH = just over 16"

why they make anything shorter than 14.7 w/ a pinned FH I dont know...

The way I see it is: Just grow some balls and get the tax stamp and make it a SBR it if you want a short barrel. Or get two stamps if you want a correct (looking) copy of a XM-177 and the moderator
 
It's also possible that certain people will look at them and say "Hmmm... I can buy this legally, then take off the flash suppressor, and have a SBR off the books...."
 
why do they sell ARs with a 11.5 inch barrel and a five inch muzzle break?
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This is ridiculous. I hate that setup, it's a total waste. You can get more effective flash hiders that are much shorter and a longer barrel that actually helps in the effectiveness of the round.

If you want an 11.5" barrel, SBR it.
 
OK, so you get the XM-177E2 look but what do you give up? Velocity. Problem here is the .223 is nothing more than a glorified .22LR. In order for the round to do any respectible amount of damage you need that velocity to upset the bullet once it hits a human body to get it to tumble. If the velocity isn't there, you get little holes in and little holes out whithout much damage in between them. Stick with the longer barrels.
 
Some people like to show off their uber-tactical rifles, and shoot just to make noise. I guess it caters to them.
 
This subject comes up all the time on another board. Everyone asks "why" or "what's the point"?

I say why not? Many folks have more than one AR type of rifle, and the 11.5/5.5 is just one more variant to enjoy. Have we all become so serious that every gun we buy has to be viewed as the ideal tool for fighting some mythical enemy the average Joe Six pack will never face? My 11.5/5.5 rifle punches holes in paper just the same as my M4, A1, and A2 variants do and is a lot of fun too.

For many people the 11.5/5.5 rifle holds some appeal because it's a reminder of the Vietnam era XM-177 carbine, which seemed to do just fine sending many Viet Cong to their maker. Sure there are better tools out there now, but why not enjoy the shortie AR for what it is, an early attempt to make the AR a faster handling carbine and a predecessor to today's M4.
 
Must every gun we buy be viewed as the ideal tool for fighting some mythical enemy the average Joe Six pack will never face?
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Exactly!

And if someone wants to get close to the ol' XM without putting up 200 (or 400) in taxes to the man, more power to 'em.
 
Just kidding guys. I have an old PWA XM177 look alike with the 10.5 inch barrel I bought in 1989. You know why? Cause I like it. Its short and light weight. My daughter likes it to. I think it will still kill at distances of 100 yards or so. I can't see past that because I have tree lines.:D

Armchair commandos just gotta have 'em.
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Your right on that respect. Most all hang out in the gun forums.:uhoh:
 
Got me. My AR-15 is an A2 sort of model with the full length heavy barrel and it could be used as a baseball bat in a pinch (but the lower receiver ears would bend if you did)...
 
Historical appeal for the XM-177 look, like others have mentioned.

Where I live, the 11.5" + 5" Flash Hider rifles seem to sell for $50-100 less than a 16" barrel, I think (seems like that was the situation last time I bought an AR and was looking hard at prices, anyway). If you're just looking for an entry-level range gun, I could see that being an issue for people on a budget, if it holds true consistently and was not just some gun store pricing quirk where I shop.
 
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I already told myself that if I ever was to get an AR15 type rifle, I would get the xm177 replica. It's just so....coooooooooool.:p :)
 
My problem with these fakes is that I've always placed performance ahead of aesthetics. Aesthetics are important; I don't particularly want an ugly gun. But if I'm gonna lose a whole bunch of performance because of the way something looks, I don't have much interest.

It's a free country, though, so folks can do whatever they want with their money...

Art
 
Actually, there IS one potential advantage to that setup: it's a bit faster to swing onto target because that 5.5" flash suppressor weighs less than the 5.5" of barrel it replaces.

tanksoldier mentioned another reason some people might have: It's a way to get a SBR without the paperwork. Although I do NOT respect unconstitutional, tyrannical, or stupid laws, I don't think breaking this one is even close to worth it. (Besides, you could probably just order a short barrel without the flash hider if you wanted to.)

I think a 16" barrel is plenty short enough for quick and easy handling unless you're constantly getting into and out of vehicles or something. And as we all know, excessively short barrels make the 5.56 anemic and make the rifle extremely LOUD. They can also cause reliability problems due to higher chamber pressure at the time when the round is being extracted.
 
If you replaced the long flash hider with a sound suppressor later, would it still count as a non-SBR barrel? That would be the only good reason I can think of.
 
One of those was my first AR15 when I was 19. I bought it precisely because of the way it looked. It looked just like the XM177E2 rifles from Vietnam, which I thought was just incredibly cool at the time.

I ended up buying an Olympic with a 11.5" stainless steel match barrel (talk about a purposeless combination). I did this mostly because at the time I didn't know much about firearms and didn't realize the degree of performance you lost with the short barrel, or the additional functional difficulties a .223 match chamber would create, or why short barrels and gas systems are problematic on direct impingement rifles.

However, if you had told me all those things then, I probably still would have bought it because it looked cool. :) Now that I shoot them a lot more than I look at them, the functional aspects are much more important to me.
 
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