Deserthunter
Member
Which collapsible stock buffer weight should I use for a l6-inch precision tactical AR-15? I'm thinking H Carbine Buffer.
Just curious why not simply turn the gas down and save the weight?I’m an H2 believer. If I want to go fast, I go light, but for anything precision - which is primarily what I choose to do - H2 is the weight I prefer.
Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain.
Because the gas drive needed for full function with a carbine buffer is the same for an H2. If you tune a gas block so the carrier locks back on the last round with a carbine buffer, it will also lock back on an H2.Just curious why not simply turn the gas down and save the weight?
The H2 isn’t a heavy buffer. In fact, it weighs less than the original rifle buffer. The carbine buffer came about because they needed a short buffer to fit the shortened carbine RE. When they shortened the buffer, they used only three buffer weights which at the time, were made of steel. It soon became apparent the carbine buffer was too light (strain on the extractor spring, faster carrier speeds, carrier bounce and other problems) so they came up with the H buffer (and the improved extractor spring).The heavy buffers were initial introduced to reduce bolt bounce in full auto and burst capable guns that are purposely built over-gassed to make them reliable even when dirty, wet and well worn.
I cannot speak for calibers other than 223/5.56 as I’ve not experimented with them.For a semi-auto gun bolt bounce is not an issue. An entire adjustable case block is almost as light as the weight difference between an standard buffer and an H2. In a semi auto gun I have never found a reason to run a heavier than normal buffer unless it was way over-gassed. That included 556, 300 BO, 450 Bushmaster, and 30 RAR. My 30 RAR currently has an H1 but that is because the scrap bin ran out of standards. When I first built is it had a standard and ran fine. I pilfered the standard from my 300 BO pistol and threw the H1 in there since it's already my heaviest AR.
Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain.
Because the gas drive needed for full function with a carbine buffer is the same for an H2. If you tune a gas block so the carrier locks back on the last round with a carbine buffer, it will also lock back on an H2.
The difference is, recoil will be much softer using an H2. Recoil with the carbine buffer is sharp. Shooter fatigue is a real thing. Shooter fatigue sets in quicker with sharp recoil.
The H2 isn’t a heavy buffer. In fact, it weighs less than the original rifle buffer. The carbine buffer came about because they needed a short buffer to fit the shortened carbine RE. When they shortened the buffer, they used only three buffer weights which at the time, were made of steel. It soon became apparent the carbine buffer was too light (strain on the extractor spring, faster carrier speeds, carrier bounce and other problems) so they came up with the H buffer (and the improved extractor spring).
Later, when they created the M4A1 with its heavier profile barrel and fitted with full auto rather than burst, they again had issues with bolt bounce. That issue was fixed with the H2 buffer.
In testing, I find the recoil impulse of 16 inch Colt is softer with an H2 than an H buffer and it runs smoother.
While bolt bounce isn’t supposed to be a problem with semi auto only ARs, the above does suggest that the H1 buffer is at the edge of the performance envelope.
Colt M4A1s are delivered to the military with H2 buffers and they are not over gassed. Another often overlooked fact is a properly gassed AR can be under buffered and will act like it’s over gassed.
It’s interesting to note that bolt bounce has never been an issue with any of the M16 variants fitted with the heavier rifle buffer.
I cannot speak for calibers other than 223/5.56 as I’ve not experimented with them.
I can tell you I’d rather have softer recoil than carry two less ounces.
Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain.
Using an upper with an adjustable gas block, firing 5.56 ammo, both unsuppressed and suppressed, I tested the carbine, H and H2 buffers to see at what setting each would function. I discovered the minimum setting for all three was the same.I can almost guarantee that I can turn the gas down to were it will lock back on an standard buffer reliably and not on an H2, at least not reliably on an H2. I have never found the H2 that much softer shooting not enough to justify the extra weigh or expense but to be honest I can't remember the last time I shot a 223/556 AR, probably four or five years ago. All my AR shooting is been 300 BO, 450 Bushmaster and 30 RAR that past few years and all of my guns are running standard buffers but the 30 RAR has an H1 as explained earlier. Each to his own. If you like the H2 have at it but you can tune the system with gas just as well as weight.
For most casual shooters, it isn't. But if you fire a lot of rounds in a day as you would in a training class, recoil adds to fatigue. The carbine buffer doesn't increase recoil, but with it's lighter weight, it hits the RE more sharply. It doesn't take long to become uncomfortable when wearing just a shirt.How can 223 "recoil" be an issue ?
Shooting M193 clone handloads (55gr 3200 fps) from my pencil weight carbine with an M4 stock does start to leave marks after a hundred or so rounds.Using an upper with an adjustable gas block, firing 5.56 ammo, both unsuppressed and suppressed, I tested the carbine, H and H2 buffers to see at what setting each would function. I discovered the minimum setting for all three was the same.
Adding a suppressor required closing the gas block a bit compared to shooting unsuppressed.
For most casual shooters, it isn't. But if you fire a lot of rounds in a day as you would in a training class, recoil adds to fatigue. The carbine buffer doesn't increase recoil, but with it's lighter weight, it hits the RE more sharply. It doesn't take long to become uncomfortable when wearing just a shirt.
Also, I find ARs using the lighter buffers develop extraction issues sooner
A little obscure history on the M4.The H2 isn’t a heavy buffer. In fact, it weighs less than the original rifle buffer. The carbine buffer came about because they needed a short buffer to fit the shortened carbine RE. When they shortened the buffer, they used only three buffer weights which at the time, were made of steel. It soon became apparent the carbine buffer was too light (strain on the extractor spring, faster carrier speeds, carrier bounce and other problems) so they came up with the H buffer (and the improved extractor spring).
Later, when they created the M4A1 with its heavier profile barrel and fitted with full auto rather than burst, they again had issues with bolt bounce. That issue was fixed with the H2 buffer.
In testing, I find the recoil impulse of 16 inch Colt is softer with an H2 than an H buffer and it runs smoother.
While bolt bounce isn’t supposed to be a problem with semi auto only ARs, the above does suggest that the H1 buffer is at the edge of the performance envelope.
Colt M4A1s are delivered to the military with H2 buffers and they are not over gassed. Another often overlooked fact is a properly gassed AR can be under buffered and will act like it’s over gassed.
It’s interesting to note that bolt bounce has never been an issue with any of the M16 variants fitted with the heavier rifle buffer.
I cannot speak for calibers other than 223/5.56 as I’ve not experimented with them.
I can tell you I’d rather have softer recoil than carry two less ounces.
Neither, but they are tailored for the pressure curves of M855 and other service ammunition. Your mileage may vary with different ammunition.It’s the Colt M4A1 under gassed or over buffered?
I was curious because I've shot civilian Colts with 14.5" SOCOM barrels and 6920s. I never felt any were under gassed or over buffered. That's using the 0.0625 gas port and the H or H2 buffer. I've never felt they were overgassed, either.Neither