AR 5.56mm combined precision distance and close quarters sighting options

[lionking]

20 " AR either a m-lok rail free float or older A2 /A4 with triangle front sight

Primary use for 200-400 yd or so precision shooting, secondary consideration quick capability for target 100 yds or less

What would be some of your choices or preferences? Scope with piggyback dot sight?. a LPVO scope?, scope with side iron sights? Red dot and magnifier?

I have no experience with a LPVO I hear it doubles as a dot sight is that true? Would one be good enough for precision shooting out to 400 yds?

Wondering some options.

 

[Mk-211]

Here's a good article to read.

The Best LPVO Scopes of 2023, Tested and Reviewed

We tested the best LPVO riflescopes' glass quality, magnification range, and reticle to determine the top do-everything scope.

www.outdoorlife.com

Another

https://vortexoptics.com/blog/lpvo-101.html

A lot will come down to how much you're willing to spend. Price doesn't always guarantee the best or what works best for you.

Warranty, customer support, glass and then tracking. If those are all solid, that's where to start.

 

[Charlie98]

Scope with piggyback dot sight?

Friend of mine has that combo, a Burris setup, on his AR... the height of the optic is fine, standard AR fare, but the red dot on top is not only awkward, but adds height on what is already a fairly tall setup.

If the primary use is precision shooting, I would get a setup for that, and put it on a removable mount... then you can slap a red dot, etc, on it for when it's in standby.

 

[jmorris]

Yeah, CQB to 400 yard precision shooting, I probably wouldn’t do with the same rifle, certainly not with the same optic, unless I wanted something that wouldn’t be great for either application.

 

[gotboostvr]

I've never particularly fallen in love with LPVO's.

I realize they can do alot, but they're just not for me.

I'd rather just run a typical 3-9x (or similar typical power range) and an offset red dot.

 

[12Bravo20]

While LPVO scopes do have their place and I do like them, they are not the best for precision work out to 400 yards. Most will have a dot reticle that hampers precise shot placement at farther ranges. Now if all you want is to ring a steel target at 400 yards then a 1-8 or 1-10 LPVO will work fine. Where a LPVO shines is quick target acquisition.

I have a Swampfox Optics Arrowhead 1-8 LPVO which is a good low cost scope. But it is harder to use for precision shooting due to the dot covering the center of the target at 100 yards and beyond.

 

[jmorris]

I've never particularly fallen in love with LPVO's.

I really like the night force NSX 1-4 and the Vortex strike Eagle 1-6 is nice for the money. I still wouldn’t choose either for what I would call precision shooting at 400 yards.

My short range (100-200 yard) benchrest rifles start over 30x magnification, great for shooting through the same hole, would be easier to use it as a blunt spear at CQB distances though.

 

[mavracer]

As others have pointed out it really depends on what you mean by 400 yard precision.
I recently swapped my carry handle A2 20" service rifle upper to a flat top since up to 4.5x optics are allowed. I've been pretty impressed by the capability of it with a Vortex Ranger PST 1-4 especially if you're just talking ringing steel to 400.
I also have a 12.5" SBR with a US Optic TS-8 1-8X that has similar capability to 400. My 16" carbine I set up for 3 gun wears a US Optic TS-12 3-12X and is a bit better for precision and it has a offset red dot for close targets.
My real precision gas guns both have 5-25X scopes and wouldn't be good for CQ anyway.

 

[Charlie98]

I bought this Crimson Trace optic for my DRM build... it's a 1-6x adjustable, with a standard crosshair reticle. I don't believe it's intended as a combat optic, but it works well for what I use it for... which is reasonable precision to, say, 400yds, but I can also crank it down to 1x, where it just acts like an open sight. It does not have illumination.

It is still not the best of both worlds as you are trying to find... in reality, it is not a good CQB optic, and no matter how much I like it, it is not a precision optic for long distances. You really need either 2 different optics, or 2 different rifles. I chose 2 different rifles... and primarily because a 20" target rifle is not as handy as a 16" carbine.

 

[C-grunt]

As other have said it depends on what you mean by precision. A good LPVO like a Vortex Razor will be a great option for hitting reasonable sized targets out to 400 and beyond while still being a very usable CQB option. But if you are wanting to engage sub MOA targets at 400 yards and expect regular hits, that's not the option for you.

Vortex Razor Gen II 1-6x24: Optics Review - LPVO

Watch latest videos, sometimes even early releases! Sign up for the newsletter: http://eepurl.com/hkbJYn [or] slateblackindustries (dot) com 👉 NewsletterPra...

www.youtube.com

 

[gotboostvr]

I really like the night force NSX 1-4 and the Vortex strike Eagle 1-6 is nice for the money. I still wouldn’t choose either for what I would call precision shooting at 400 yards.

My short range (100-200 yard) benchrest rifles start over 30x magnification, great for shooting through the same hole, would be easier to use it as a blunt spear at CQB distances though.

I'd probably be able to live happily with the Nightforce, but I had a 1-6x Strike Eagle and was just pretty unhappy with it overall.

I really didn't like the glass, it fishbowled (although, not nearly as bad as the 1-8x) in the top half of its power range, and was just kinda heavy.

I enjoy the PA micro 3x I swapped it for much more.

If I need more magnification than 3x, I'll swap to my AR with a 4-12x leupold and I'm currently in the process of adding an offset 1x of some sort for close shots on coyotes for the "best of both worlds". Dosen't add an appreciable amount of weight over a single LPVO either.

 

[jmorris]

I'd probably be able to live happily with the Nightforce, but I had a 1-6x Strike Eagle and was just pretty unhappy with it overall.

Yeah, it’s no NF but it‘s also 1/3 the price, with a mount, why I added the “for the money” part.

 

[BreechFace]

Not a fan of the Strike Eagles either.

If one wants a good budget friendly LPVO look to Burris.

As for LPVO’s as a whole, I’m a fan as long as the reticle, illumination and eye box is done right.

 

[C-grunt]

Gotboostvr brought up another option. Prism optics. They might not be as versatile as a good LPVO but the glass quality is usually really good for the price and they are smaller and lighter.

I had an ACOG on my DMR in 2005 and was capable of making hits on man size targets out past 600 meters pretty easily. Under 400 I could hit fairly small targets with it too. Again it depends on what you mean by "precision". A good 3 or 4 power prism isnt slow at closer ranges either. It's no Eotech, but it's no slouch.

 

[powermad]

My 14.7" has a Primary Arms 1-8 with the ACSS reticle that works well on that gun.
The BDC is almost spot on with 62gn to 500 yds according to Strelok.
200 yds is the most I've shot it though.

My 18" has a NF 2.5-10x42 that works for me.
With a 1.93" NF mount it weights about an ounce more than than the 1-8 and 1.6" Swampfox mount.
2.5 works 25 yds and out for me, both eyes open.

I was looking at an offset red dot but that's not needed for what I do, I have more than enough time to spin the objective, parallax and turret.
Or use the BDC on full size targets with the 1-8.
On 1 power at 25 yds I just put the Chevron on top of the target and make it wear a hat, the 200 yd holdover. 8 power is the 400 line.
Easy enough to remember for me.

 

[Walkalong]

What do folks know/think about this Sig?

Sig Sauer Tango MSR 1-6x24mm Illuminated MSR-BDC6 SFP Black Riflescope w/Alpha-MSR Cantilevered Black Mount SOT61000

Sig Sauer Tango MSR 1-6x24mm Illuminated MSR-BDC6 SFP Black Riflescope w/Alpha-MSR Cantilevered Black Mount SOT61000 For Sale at EuroOptic.com. This Sig Sauer Rifle scope is a perfect addition to an AR-type platform. SHIPS FREE!

www.eurooptic.com

 

[12Bravo20]

I had to offset my reticle in order to shoot tight groups at 100 yards when using my Swampfox Arrowhead 1-8 scope. There wa just no way of shooting a tight group at 100 with the dot centered since it covered the center of the target.

 

[powermad]

What do folks know/think about this Sig?

Sig Sauer Tango MSR 1-6x24mm Illuminated MSR-BDC6 SFP Black Riflescope w/Alpha-MSR Cantilevered Black Mount SOT61000

Sig Sauer Tango MSR 1-6x24mm Illuminated MSR-BDC6 SFP Black Riflescope w/Alpha-MSR Cantilevered Black Mount SOT61000 For Sale at EuroOptic.com. This Sig Sauer Rifle scope is a perfect addition to an AR-type platform. SHIPS FREE!

www.eurooptic.com

I was looking at other models and just didn't like the reticle as much as the ACSS.

 

[Walkalong]

Curious about glass quality, reticle isn't optimal, but many aren't.

 

[Navy87Guy]

I have. 1-6x24 LPVO on my AR10. It’s adequate for the rifle but I’m not planning to shoot to 400 yds.

I’m not sure what you mean about an LPVO “doubling” as a red dot. Not in my experience. If you want a red dot, you can mount one on an offset mount (just tilt the angle 45 degrees) but the LPVO reticles I’ve seen don’t incorporate any kind of red dot.

 

[lionking]

I'm still reading replies haven't made my mind up yet. If I get a scope I do want it to be variable and first focal plane however, I want to be able to magnify to see a target at a good distance. I have prism scope they are okay to a certain distance but you can't adjust magnify the chevron or cross hair, and the manufactures say they are calibrated for hold over how is that when someones choice of barrel length, ammo selection will vary? It might be calibrated for M193 or M855 ammo but what when you want to use 69gr or 77gr so?

So I am thinking so far two choices

Choice A, I buy yet anther rifle which I rather not do but would if need be like this Armalite M15 20" m-lok then have to buy a scope and bipod and decide on a dot sight on top or offset also pushing $2000 when said and done, positive note on that I can mount a scope low as I want and if I piggyback a red dot it won't be so high. Really not a fan of the idea of offset sights were you have turn a rifle to the side to use but I would if it was a need be being 5.56 is a soft recoil.

Or choice B, transform my old A2 HBAR with carry handle into a Delta HBAR type , then just get the rail with see through for irons,, get a scope, get a bipod and be able to use iron sights for closer shooting , and I really like the older A2 or A4 with the full stock and I really like the feel of the old round hand guards, the older A2 20" style just really feels right in my hands. It may look weird these days to have a scope on top of a carry handle but that could serve my needs, maybe.

What is my definition of precision for this discussion? a confident one shot one center hit on a 20" h x 8"w size steel target up to 400 yds (or so) excluding wind and drift conditions and stuff. With the ability to transition to targets 50 yds to 100 yds with reasonable quick acquisition.

The problem I have with a ACOG and such the chevron is so small to me just burying it at 100 yds is what I do I have a hard time seeing the tip of the chevron (100 yds) between the bottom of it (200 yds) I need a optic that will magnify to my desire for longer range work and if it has mils which I want then first focal plane.

I don't know I 'll go to gun stores and check out what LPVO they have see what I think about it,

 

[Charlie98]

Or choice B, transform my old A2 HBAR with carry handle into a Delta HBAR type , then just get the rail with see through for irons,, get a scope, get a bipod and be able to use iron sights for closer shooting , and I really like the older A2 or A4 with the full stock and I really like the feel of the old round hand guards, the older A2 20" style just really feels right in my hands. It may look weird these days to have a scope on top of a carry handle but that could serve my needs, maybe.

It's not just weird, it's horrible for long range shooting... with the optic so high above the bore. Further, you will have to come up with some workable cheek piece to raise your eye up, or you will not get a consistent cheek weld. ...I know, I have an -A2 H-bar as well. For a long time, I was trying to find a genuine Colt A3 (flattop) big pin upper to swap my parts into, but in the end, I decided to just keep the H-bar the way it was, and build a better rifle (hence, my DMR pictured above.) FWIW, the H-bar, even in A2 configuration, is no slouch to 300yds, and for a good rifleman, to 400yds. As an aside, like you, I like the standard A2 buttstock, and my DMR would have had one... but my brother gave me that UBR stock, and it seemed like a good fit, so that's what I have.

 

[mcb]

I have. 1-6x24 LPVO on my AR10. It’s adequate for the rifle but I’m not planning to shoot to 400 yds.

I’m not sure what you mean about an LPVO “doubling” as a red dot. Not in my experience. If you want a red dot, you can mount one on an offset mount (just tilt the angle 45 degrees) but the LPVO reticles I’ve seen don’t incorporate any kind of red dot.

Even a cheap MTAC 1-4x24 will do double duty as a red-dot. Turn the magnification down to 1x and turn the illuminated reticle up in brightness and you have a decently effective red-dot with a ~7 MOA dot. It won't be as good as a red-dot due to the more restrictive field of view but if you learn to shoot both eyes open it will work fairly well in my experience. LPVO are always a modest compromise but I don't get the impression the OP is looking for CQB type sight.

If the money was there I would serious look at the Vortex Razor HD Gen III 1-10x24. 10x is more than enough magnification for 400+ yard shots and being able to turn it all the way down to a true 1x magnification with illuminated reticule will do close range fast acquisition shooting pretty well. The first focal plan reticule will make hold overs easier too.

 

[mavracer]

It's not just weird, it's horrible for long range shooting... with the optic so high above the bore. Further, you will have to come up with some workable cheek piece to raise your eye up, or you will not get a consistent cheek weld. ...I know, I have an -A2 H-bar as well. For a long time, I was trying to find a genuine Colt A3 (flattop) big pin upper to swap my parts into, but in the end, I decided to just keep the H-bar the way it was, and build a better rifle (hence, my DMR pictured above.) FWIW, the H-bar, even in A2 configuration, is no slouch to 300yds, and for a good rifleman, to 400yds. As an aside, like you, I like the standard A2 buttstock, and my DMR would have had one... but my brother gave me that UBR stock, and it seemed like a good fit, so that's what I have.

They make offset pins to use a small pin upper on a big pin lower.
That's what I did on my old A2, and yeah even with the irons you should be able to hit a 2MOA wide target at 400.
The Matech BUIS with the WOA NM front post works really good, it took a lot of fiddling to get the front adjusted for windage but it's perfect now and the yardage hash marks are pretty close with 55s.

Colt AR15/M16 Receiver Offset Adaptor Pin

adapts large pin colt lower receivers to fit standard small pin upper receivers. adaptor pin has a reduced diameter, offset center section. colt, ar15, m16, pre-ban, lower, receiver, offset, adaptor, pin, 206-lrpcap, 552340a, 552340b, offset pivot pin, semi auto, adaptor screw, colt adapter...

eabco.com

 

[HKGuns]

Your question is exactly why LPVO's were designed and are being produced and sold. 1X for close stuff, 4-6-8 for the longer stuff.

4 or 6X is more than enough scope to make hits at 400 yards. I don't care for 8x as the eye releif starts to get too tight in the one's I have tried.

I cold bore, one shot, one of these 4" rubber shooting cubes sitting on a log at 300 yards using one of my Burris RT-6 scopes on one of my AR platform rifles.