AR chambering for hunting 4-legged mammals in NW USA

[B yond]

I am planning to start hunting 4-legged critters in the great northwest this year. I want to use my AR-pattern lower as I've become very familiar with the cheekweld and trigger, and am confident with it. I have uppers in .22LR and 5.56NATO, but I'd like to build an upper specifically for hunting that is suitable for multiple varieties of walking meat. As I know very little about hunting, my question to you is:

Which of the 4 calibers listed in the poll is most suitable for hunting a variety of mammals in northwest USA? Target animals will likely be mostly hog, deer, and the occasional elk, although I may discover other tasty animals and want to harvest some of them with it too.

5.56NATO, 7.62x39, 6.8SPC, 50BEOWULF

Thanks in advance.

 

[helotaxi]

7.62x51 requires a different lower.

Look at the .300 OSSM or the .25 WSSM. They need custom uppers but are about as "hot rod" as you can get within the constraints of the standard AR-15 lower.

 

[68wj]

You will have trouble getting a 7.62 NATO mag to fit your lower (ie, it won't). All of the cartridges are good, and there are several more not listed. I voted 6.8 SPC due to proven performance and availability. There are arguments for any of them. For elk, none of the AR cartridges would be my first choice, but it can and has been done.

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, the 6.8 will make a dandy deer cartridge. If elk or anything bigger is at all a possibility, you want something bigger than the 6.8. I'd rather take on a standard AR sized .450BM, .458SOCOM or .50Beowulf than the heavier 7.62/AR-10 variants. Which will require an AR-10 based lower (a new complete rifle) anyway.

 

[B yond]

I'm an idiot. I meant 7.62x39, not 7.62NATO.

Mods, any way to edit the poll?

 

[marksman13]

I voted with my wallet and ordered a 458 SOCOM and a 300 BLK. I'm sure I'll end up with a 6.8 at some point as well.

 

[redneck2]

Last fall I got an upper from Dedicated Technologies. It's a .25 WSSM necked up to .358 (legal for deer in Indiana). Uses a standard lower and mag. It's a true 300 yard gun. Pushes a 200 grain at about 2,800 fps. Obviously handload only, but you're gonna want to do that anyway, particular with a SOCOM. Shoots sub 1".

I'd take it on an elk hunt, no problem. I already have a SOCOM, but this is good for another 125+ yards.

 

[Acera]

I voted with my wallet and ordered a 458 SOCOM and a 300 BLK.

Me also, I got the .300 Blackout. Same number of rounds in a regular AR magazine with no modifications to mag or BCG. More downrange energy that the 7.62x39, getting easy to find and inexpensive. Can load all the way up to 220 grains for subsonic loadings. Some really good .30 hunting bullets to work with out there.

However if you want to get enhanced performance out of a 5.56mm try the new Barnes bullets, they are getting some great reviews.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/tipped-tsx-bullet/

 

[lukedsh]

I think a .50 BMG upper would get the job done.... wait do you actually want to eat the deer lol

 

[snakeman]

300 blackout ballistics aren't as good as the 7.62x39. That said I voted 6.8 because it trumps em' both as a hunting round. there's no need for subsonic loads for hunting. The 6.8 loaded with some heavier barnes bullets should work on quite a variety of critters. I shoot a 120 grain sst from hornady. I won't even comment on the elk hunting with an ar 15. I think you need an ar 10 in 308 or 338 federal for that.

 

[NG VI]

.458 SOCOM would be my suggestion. Or one of the WSSM-type rounds, that would be even better if you can shoot a good distance. If the Pacific Northwest is like Maine though, you probably don't really need all that much range. Couple hundred yards of very safe effective range is probably plenty, and in that arena the .458 would shine. .50 Beowulf might not be a bad choice either.

 

[Tirod]

Pick the one that gives you 1000 foot pounds to the longest range that still feeds in the AR15 lower - and upper. After all, the whole point is to be able to use standard AR15 parts that won't be proprietary or cost an arm and a leg.

Likely, the 6.8. But, it's not about which one "wins," it what fits your needs best - and that's going to be the longest range, hardest hitting. If you have game that's consistently over 500 pounds on the hoof, reconsider if the AR15 should even be the platform. Then the AR10 in .308 would be the better choice.

You really don't need a poll for these results, a simple search of ballistics generally gives a good answer. http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_ballistics_table.htm

 

[Acera]

300 blackout ballistics aren't as good as the 7.62x39.

Snakeman do some unbiased research. At the ranges the op seems to want to use the blackout passes the Russian round. You have a much greater selection of bullets. I did not mean to imply that you would hunt with a subsonic round, you hunt with the 125 grain rounds. However there are some states where you can hunt with a suppressed rifle, and a properly selected subsonic bullet can do a good job at limited ranges.

 

[snakeman]

Ok I guess for hogs the subsonic load would be good as well as for predators. Where I see the blackout falling short is that it pushes a 110 grain bullet to 2400 fps according to factory ammunition data where as the 7.62x39 does the same with a 124 grain. The 6.8 outperforms both by pushing a 120 grain sst to 2450 and a 110 grain to 2550 from a 16" barrel according to Hornady data. The 6.8 also has the ability to be loaded with an 85 grain barnes x bullet for everything from pronghorn to black bear and large pigs. Even better would be the 25 wssm loaded with a 100 or115 grain partition or 95 grain gmx.

 

[35 Whelen]

Tirod pretty much got it right.

No offense, but I think this is another attempt at wanting to do with an AR, what shouldn't be done with an AR.
Vast throngs of people have fallen in love with this platform and ever since have been trying to do with it more than they should, and hunting anything larger than deer, much further than 200 yds. is asking for trouble. Gunny type fellows have spent jillions of dollars trying to cram larger, more powerful cartridges in the AR-15 and it just ain't gonna happen mainly due to magazine constraints.
The best way to think of an AR-15 from a hunting standpoint and its realistic usefullness is this: small varmints, as far out as you can hit them. Deer, 150 MAYBE 200 yds. with a really good bullet. Hogs, 100 yds. Elk, NO, bear NO, Moose, NO, Muskox, NO, Cape Buffalo, NO, Elephant, NO.
B Yond it's great you've become familiar with the AR, now start shooting a bolt rifle (or a least a more powerful semi-auto), expand your horizons and forget about taking a knife to a gunfight.

35W

 

[MistWolf]

For hunting medium game in the Pacific Northwest with a AR rifle, the best choice is the 300 BLK. The 7.62x39 requires more than a bit of work to get it to run in an AR especially adapting the lower to take an AK magazine. The bolt face also needs to be opened up quite a bit.

The 6.8 & 6.5 also work best in a dedicated magazine. Again, the bolt face needs to be opened up, but not as much as the 7.62x39.

The 300 BLK uses the same basic case dimensions as the 5.56, needs no special magazine or to have the bolt face opened up and bullets designed for specifically hunting hogs and deer at 300 BLK velocities are being offered.

If you include elk in the mix, I would step up to a 308 for an AR style rifle

 

[68wj]

For hunting medium game in the Pacific Northwest with a AR rifle, the best choice is the 300 BLK. The 7.62x39 requires more than a bit of work to get it to run in an AR especially adapting the lower to take an AK magazine No, 7.62x39 AR mags are available. Their reliability is the subject of debate though, but that is a different thread. The bolt face also needs to be opened up quite a bit.

The 6.8 & 6.5 also work best in a dedicated magazine. Again, the bolt face needs to be opened up, but not as much as the 7.62x39.The 6.5 bolt opening is the same as the 7.62x39 and some setups even use a 7.62x39 bolt. A true 6.5 Grendel bolt is recessed even deeper than 7.62.

All the talk about bolts is moot as the OP is building. If I am buying/building an upper, no matter the cartridge, I am going to put a bolt in the budget too. Most any AR-15 bolt is comparative in cost, and the only premature failures of AR bolts that I have heard of are 7.62x39 (likely due to the increased bolt thrust from the heavily tapered cartridge)

The 300 BLK uses the same basic case dimensions as the 5.56, needs no special magazine or to have the bolt face opened up and bullets designed for specifically hunting hogs and deer at 300 BLK velocities are being offered.

If you include elk in the mix, I would step up to a 308 for an AR style rifle

Interesting the number of votes for a cartridge that doesn't fit the OP's build and was an admitted error.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I voted 7.62 NATO but since that was a poll mistake I'll vote 6.5 Grendel. The Grendel loaded with a 123AMAX would be superior to any of the available choices. The 6.8 is a close second.

 

[Tirod]

If the OP would name the largest game animal he will attempt hunting, it would be an important point in selection. Again, if it's over 500 pounds, consider carefully if the AR15 is really the tool to use. And again, research the ballistics for the one that has 1000 foot pounds out to the longest range. Ask yourself, will you actually get shots that far?

It comes down to what is the effective range game is actually shot, and how big is it? Cartridge fanboys pop up with their favorite first, when it's the range and target that needs finalizing in numbers. Then you know what compromise is being made - and why - if something too light is chosen just because it's popular or the new hot item.

In that regard, sub or supersonic, the .30 in a 5.56 or x39 case is not on the top of the list for medium game. They don't carry energy out in a flat trajectory as far as 6.5 or 6.8.

I'll stop there and get popcorn, something tells me this conversation isn't going to go much further.

 

[B yond]

Elk would probably be the largest, unless hogzilla is hiding out there somewhere...

Mostly this would be used for deer and hog.

I'm not sure about range, as I'm not currently an established hunter. I'd like the kills to be clean and ethical, so as close as I need to be to make the shot, I guess.

If the upper could double as a match gun, that'd be great, so improved accuracy over longer-than-necessary distance is a plus, although not a requirement. My primary concern with this one is hunting.

The thing I like about the AR is being able to change the upper out for different porposes while retaining the same trigger, grip, and cheekweld. I'm not at all opposed to building multiple single purpose uppers. I would like my first hunting upper to be able to handle multiple types of game that I'm likely to encounter. Later on I may refine that into separate uppers for different animals.

 

[CraigC]

I would go for the 6.8 and concentrate on deer and hogs. Worry about elk later.

 

[MistWolf]

Interesting the number of votes for a cartridge that doesn't fit the OP's build and was an admitted error.

Thank you for the correction about rim sizes. The problem still remains that opening up the bolt face weakens it. The problem with the 7.62x39 is that it works best in AK mags and it's difficult to adapt an AR lower to their use.

The 6.8 and 6.5 are good calibers but the 300 is a better choice in an AR because it fits the rifle better

 

[Driftertank]

Be more specific about WHERE. I know in Washington Stat .223 isn't legal for deer / elk.

 

[dprice3844444]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfzSYjXc2rw colt sp901 multi caliber

http://www.gundigest.com/gun-blogs/...olt-le901-16s-from-5-56-to-7-62-in-30-seconds

 

[cyclopsshooter]

I have an Oly 7.62x39 and with quality commercial hunting loads it gives me an inch group at 100. Corbon has a 150gr round available which actually a .308 bullet. Original x39 is .311 and the Oly barrel is .310. Still shoots well but it is a consideration to think about.