AR Heavy Barrel vs. Lightweight Profile Barrel
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Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
For hunting as a primary use, go lightweight.
Jackal
Member
Also, not that Delton is *bad, but you can likely do better for about the same price.
MachIVshooter
Member
+1
Check Palmetto.
I recently built one with a BCM enhanced lightweight barrel, and another with a SPIKE'S optimum contour. The BCM is lighter, but they are comparable in accuracy. I haven't really poured the heat to them yet, but both held the group together through a full magazine pretty well at what I would guess is around 2MOA. I was pretty impressed actually, especially being skeptical of the lightweight barrel. Both are free floated. I think you can get both of these in assembled uppers if that is your choice.
ETA: this was with handloaded Nosler 69gr CC's.
ETA: this was with handloaded Nosler 69gr CC's.
Heavy barrels are purportedly more accurate, but until they are actually shot in a side by side comparision, there is nothing to prove it. They are just another barrel with more material left on the contour - it's the rifling that makes them accurate.
If the maker doesn't have an accuracy guarantee to go along with the contour, what you get is a barrel they spent less time machining, and are making more profit.
As for being more accurate after a magazine or two of ammo, that's a counterproductive situation. There are very few instances when that is a necessity - pouring rounds downrange in volume is in and of itself not an exercise in high precision. Those that do would be in a Service rifle match or 3 Gun, and that makes it a ten percent exercise to sort out competitors who's scores vary by single digits. Opting for the heavy barrel on a hunting or plinking rifle would be a waste of money and calories burned having to drag it around in the field.
Heavy barrels get marketed and sell because they can, but if precision is the goal, then one labeled and guaranteed as such is often in the $400 category - not just another option on that vendor's web page.
If the maker doesn't have an accuracy guarantee to go along with the contour, what you get is a barrel they spent less time machining, and are making more profit.
As for being more accurate after a magazine or two of ammo, that's a counterproductive situation. There are very few instances when that is a necessity - pouring rounds downrange in volume is in and of itself not an exercise in high precision. Those that do would be in a Service rifle match or 3 Gun, and that makes it a ten percent exercise to sort out competitors who's scores vary by single digits. Opting for the heavy barrel on a hunting or plinking rifle would be a waste of money and calories burned having to drag it around in the field.
Heavy barrels get marketed and sell because they can, but if precision is the goal, then one labeled and guaranteed as such is often in the $400 category - not just another option on that vendor's web page.
FlyingScot
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TIROD got it right
Very good summary. I picked up a Colt 6720 after much agonizing and research. In the end, everything I found matched what you said. If I was going to shoot supported with a high number of rounds or somehow became a superhuman marksman unsupported...then a certified heavy barrel might make sense. Otherwise, for us mere mortals the lightweight barrel profile has a few advantages
. Good luck!
Very good summary. I picked up a Colt 6720 after much agonizing and research. In the end, everything I found matched what you said. If I was going to shoot supported with a high number of rounds or somehow became a superhuman marksman unsupported...then a certified heavy barrel might make sense. Otherwise, for us mere mortals the lightweight barrel profile has a few advantages
. Good luck!
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Is it HBAR heavy or a mid-weight profile on a mid-length gas heavy? Got a pic of the profile?
Here's a pic of my mid-weight profile barrel.
I ended up not liking the balance of the gun with the M4 collapsible stock on it, due to how muzzle heavy my gun felt with that barrel. I ended up sticking on a GI type A1 stock which added just over a 1/2 pound to the rear.
Weight went from 6.8 lbs to 7.4 lbs (including empty mag) by adding that A1 and rifle tube/buffer/spring.
I can't say the gun is any more accurate with irons/red dot than any other AR, I need to try some benched scope shooting to compare.
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medic15al
Member
I detest heavy barrel ARs due to the fact it was supposedly a lightweight replacement for the ground troops to make it easier to hump. Heavy barrels do away with that. An A2 govt profile is ok tho.
I have a BCM LW midlength and a AR-15A1 and both are sweet to carry in the woods and are as accurate as you are.
I have a BCM LW midlength and a AR-15A1 and both are sweet to carry in the woods and are as accurate as you are.
dprice3844444
member
http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.5_hs.php thermal dissipator for skinny barrels
With the smoking deals that BCM is running short of a gun for a very specific use I'm not sure why one would chose anything else. I have a few ARs inlcuding guns from PSA, BCM, Noveske, etc. When you can get a midlength lightweight BCM upper with BCM BCG for $460 ish that is a no brainer over anything from PSA IMHO. That BCM is a better value than anything I see on PSA's page right now.
As to barrel profile, short of having a specific use that warrants a heavier barrel I prefer lighter profile.
Welding Rod
Member
If you are to shoot slung and unslung, and are not floating the barrel, a HBAR can have quite an advantage in minimizing POI shift.
If you float the barrel, the HBAR advantage is minimized.
I have a fair bit of experience with light and heavy 20" AR profiles, both floated and not. I am not a big guy and don't believe in artificial shooting props like shooting or hard back coats. Personally my favorite, even for high power math shooting, is a light weight profile that is floated. I find this easier to manage off hand than a HBAR. That said, I am giving up about 3/4 - 1 MOA in all positions by doing This which is enough to cost positions or wins in a match, no question.
If you float the barrel, the HBAR advantage is minimized.
I have a fair bit of experience with light and heavy 20" AR profiles, both floated and not. I am not a big guy and don't believe in artificial shooting props like shooting or hard back coats. Personally my favorite, even for high power math shooting, is a light weight profile that is floated. I find this easier to manage off hand than a HBAR. That said, I am giving up about 3/4 - 1 MOA in all positions by doing This which is enough to cost positions or wins in a match, no question.
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Bobson
Member
What different contour options are there?
It's basically just government/pencil, lightweight, medium, and heavy, right?
I've heard excellent things about BCM rifles lately (and their RECCE rifle seems like a real winner for an excellent price), but it looks like they offer a lightweight barrel on all their carbines. I understand that weight reduction is valuable for the role those carbines are made for, but don't groups open up too much during prolonged fire to make a lightweight barrel truly practical?
Who makes medium contour barrels that meet a nice mix between quality and price for something like an "urban survival" carbine?
It's basically just government/pencil, lightweight, medium, and heavy, right?
I've heard excellent things about BCM rifles lately (and their RECCE rifle seems like a real winner for an excellent price), but it looks like they offer a lightweight barrel on all their carbines. I understand that weight reduction is valuable for the role those carbines are made for, but don't groups open up too much during prolonged fire to make a lightweight barrel truly practical?
Who makes medium contour barrels that meet a nice mix between quality and price for something like an "urban survival" carbine?
MachIVshooter
Member
By the time you pay shipping and finish it out with even a cheap charging handle and hand guards, you're over $500. And great deals that are perpetually out of stock may as well be unicorns.
I'm not arguing that BCM isn't better; I love my 12.5" 1:8 stainless BCM. And their deals right now are fantastic. But there's also not a darn thing wrong with PSA's stuff, and you really can't beat them for an economical build. I built one on their 1:7 stainless freedom upper at the beginning of the month, and the thing is truly a shooter that exhibited zero problems. Just decided to put another one together, probably to sit on until the next panic; stainless 1:7 middy with all MOE furniture on a billet lower (was an 80%) for $556, including shipping. Consider that even pre-panic one would spend $100 more on a bottom rung M-4gery with the crappy furniture.........
Welding Rod
Member
I have several 20" BCM Govs, and a BCM 16" LW Mid BHF.
The consistency of the 20s is remarkable. They shoot essentially identically. They are 556 chambered and they aren't tolerant of all lower powered 223 loads. Flawless w/ 556 and most 223.
The 16 LW BHF is more accurate than the 20" Govs. No idea if that is typical, but that is what I see.
I don't do mag dumps, but all have a stable POI in rapid fire HP match shooting.
The consistency of the 20s is remarkable. They shoot essentially identically. They are 556 chambered and they aren't tolerant of all lower powered 223 loads. Flawless w/ 556 and most 223.
The 16 LW BHF is more accurate than the 20" Govs. No idea if that is typical, but that is what I see.
I don't do mag dumps, but all have a stable POI in rapid fire HP match shooting.
Ibmikey
Member
Ta star, I currently have two Del Ton rmid length rifles in the pile, one is a light weight barrel and the second the "heavy" barrel you refer to. Although the barrel is heavier it is not super heavy but more on the line of my Colt HBar. In either case I love shooting these rifles as they are totally reliable, accurate and quality throughout. The lighter of the two seems to get more of a workout because of the weight, or lack of, as the older I get weight becomes a real issue. You will not go wrong with either of your options just consider the plus and minus (if any) of each.
1stmarine
Member
I remember the heavy barrel being pretty accurate even with bulk ammo. It takes longer to heat but it is heavier. I would go light and if heat is a concern they sell heat sinks as an option (rapid fire uses).
Most of the uppers on PSA need a charging handle and a BCG. They also need to be shipped. Add the same charging handle and a BCM BCG and the price difference is worth getting a BCM IMHO.
PSA is running their premium mid length for $320. Add a $189 BCG and you are over $500. You still need a charging handle. If you get a PSA BCG you can get it for $100 and that puts you at $420. However, there is a reason a PSA BCG is cheaper than a BCM.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...ium-upper-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html
The BCM upper below is $469. You need a charging handle but that is a wash with the PSA. The BCM upper comes with a BCM BCG and a BCM comp. That comp isa an $80 value versus the $9 A2 on the PSA. You need handguards. That said if you just want handguards like come on the PSA you literally can find them for free, or very near it, many places.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Standard-16-C8-SFW-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-c8-sfw-16.htm
As to the BCM deals being unicorns they have a number of uppers in stock right now and have over the last few weeks. That comment is simply factually incorrect.
Look at those two uppers and try and tell me that the PSA is honestly a better value. It is not. I'm not anti PSA. I have bought A TON of stuff from them. I have used PSA guns and own one. I can say I prefer the BCM that I have. You are getting much more bang for the buck with that BCM versus that PSA. One more advantage is that in my experience it doesn't take BCM the 2-4 weeks I have waited for PSA to ship stuff.
Like I said I have bought a lot of stuff from them. Most of it has been fine. I have come across some items that were wanting. I'll see if I can get a pic of a PSA BCG I have that is poorly staked for example. I have also seen crap castle nut staking. I have not seen it in person but they have had some other issues with feed ramps and gas tubes. Overall I think the PSA stuff is pretty good for the money. However, with what BCM is offering I think it is obviously the better choice right now.
* edit to add that the PSA BCG comes with a cheapo charging handle right now so that is slight different calculation than above. However, it wouldn't change my calculation concerning the relative value of each.
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For 2MOA combat use, no.
For high tier competitive use in position square range shooting, maybe.
In combat, you have to carry it miles across country to even get to the place where you shoot - if the enemy doesn't come knocking on your door - and even at that, if you are expending a magazine a minute in a firefight, practical accuracy is well below minute of man. A heavy barrel is of no value in that scenario.
Position shooting on a range, IF there is a rapid fire string, then, maybe. What the proponents of heavy barrels are saying is that the mass of the barrel absorbs more heat which keeps the overall shape of the barrel from distorting.
If the barrel is distorting from heat, then it is because the material isn't homogeneous and has flaws, inclusions, and stresses in it. That is an admission the blank itself wasn't very high quality. In fact, doing a great job rifling it would be a waste of effort if it's going to drift all over creation just because it warmed up. Better to spend the money in a higher quality stick of metal that was formed with processes that prevent it.
If anything, that's what you get with the $400 barrels that come with a guarantee. Spending another $40 for the option won't get you much in the way of improvement except looks and bragging rights until you prove it actually gets you a smaller group.
With barrels made by mass production techniques pouring off the machines, good luck with that - the profile is cut last as a cosmetic feature. Plenty of pencil and recon profiles do very well in accuracy - the blank is well made, few inclusions, came off the line straight and wasn't bent to force it that way, had great drilling and rifling, air gauges to a high standard.
Yes, they actually bend them cold to straighten them. That's how you "regulate" a shotgun to hit point of aim, too. Yes - bend it.
You have to pay for an accurate barrel, or you take your chances. A heavy profile in and of itself means very little - unless you are humping it ten miles a day cross country, at which point it's highly impractical.
Just another one of those things that sells because it can be, not because it's proven to work.
redneck2
Member
I have two AR's that I consider quite accurate. One is a .358 WSSM that I use for deer. Barrel is a heavy stainless fluted Shilen Match. . Shoots three into .4" @ 100
Second is a Windham Bushmaster Varminter .223. Barrel is very light and fluted, and air gauged. It is also match grade IIRC. It shoots as well or better than the other one
The heavy barrel is awful to lug around the woods, but it was all I could get at the time. If I had my choice (for hunting) it would mid or preferably light weight
As noted, quality of materials and manufacturing has much more to do with accuracy than contour IMO
Second is a Windham Bushmaster Varminter .223. Barrel is very light and fluted, and air gauged. It is also match grade IIRC. It shoots as well or better than the other one
The heavy barrel is awful to lug around the woods, but it was all I could get at the time. If I had my choice (for hunting) it would mid or preferably light weight
As noted, quality of materials and manufacturing has much more to do with accuracy than contour IMO
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
I have a heavy-ish profile 16" Wilson barrel on my middy AR. It is quite accurate, but if I had it to do over again, I'd probably go with a 16" pencil barrel and free-float it. (Will probably do that to this rifle at some point, as funds permit.) As-is, it is much more nose-heavy than I like.
MachIVshooter
Member
I will definitely concur that BCM is lightning fast on shipping, although to be fair, PSA has always shipped my orders in 1-5 business days as well.
One other positive for PSA is that they display live inventory. My biggest beef with many companies is that you place your order for an "in stock" item, only to get a back order notice a few days later. DS Arms is particularly bad about that; I have even called them to verify stock, placed my order and still got a backorder notice. I ordered an upper from DSA in early October of 2012, didn't get the thing until May of '13. They have great products, and their AR pricing is very competitive, but they are a humongous pain to deal with sometimes.
Bobson
Member
Thank you for the detailed response, Tirod. Very helpful.
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