I'm looking for my first AR-15, and naturally don't know much about them yet. I've pounded the forums for a few days now and I'm catching on a bit. I figured I'd post to see what your opinions are of what I should get. I'd be using it for plinking and varmints out to no more than 200yds. Probably won't put more than 200-300 rounds a year through it. I'd like the rifle to cost less than $700. CMMG Bargain Bin seems to be my best bet unless you guys have a better idea.
AR Options Got My Head Spinning
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F-Body Demon
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You could really scratch the itch and put your own together. I sourced out a complete M4 wannabe tonight for just over $600 including shipping and FFL. Google shopping man, check it out. Just search AR Upper and then AR Lower.
Also its a good idea to buy a 5.56 / 223 barreled weapon vise just the 223. Wouldn't want to hurt your new baby buy shooting up that fun/cheap surplus ammo!
Also its a good idea to buy a 5.56 / 223 barreled weapon vise just the 223. Wouldn't want to hurt your new baby buy shooting up that fun/cheap surplus ammo!
Yeah, that's a road I might take. I just don't know what options would be best for my needs...popping ground hogs/and coyotes at medium range. I get on the different companies websites to look at uppers and its like the descriptions are in a different language cause I just don't know that much about AR's
highorder
Member
You've got the right idea.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
SFAIK, CMMG bargain bin stuff is bargain bin because of some cosmetic flaw. I'm happy as a bug with the sub-MOA from my CMMG upper.
Just my own personal opinion, but if you get a flat-top and put a halfway-decent fixed 4X scope on it, you'll have no trouble on varmints to 200 yards.
More opinion: Most of the add-on option stuff is about like power windows and door locks on a car: Nice, but not really needed.
Just my own personal opinion, but if you get a flat-top and put a halfway-decent fixed 4X scope on it, you'll have no trouble on varmints to 200 yards.
More opinion: Most of the add-on option stuff is about like power windows and door locks on a car: Nice, but not really needed.
Creature
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Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I figure that folks oughta be able to buy whatever they want to. That doesn't keep me from seeing such an ad and agreeing with the ancient adage, "A fool and his money are soon parted."
One reason I can afford pretty much whatever I want is that I haven't gone through life all eat up with the I-wants. It didn't take me long to figure out that money goes out a helluva lot faster than it comes in.
A good basic shooter that lets you get sighted in and then kill varmints doesn't take a bunch of add-ons to be very effective in its intended use.
One reason I can afford pretty much whatever I want is that I haven't gone through life all eat up with the I-wants. It didn't take me long to figure out that money goes out a helluva lot faster than it comes in.
A good basic shooter that lets you get sighted in and then kill varmints doesn't take a bunch of add-ons to be very effective in its intended use.
I like a longer barrel than what comes on the CMMG, fine rifle though. I like an 18 or 20" barrel.
Building your own AR at this point would be a bad idea. Pricing the parts out is one thing. Turning them into a reliably functioning rifle may be quite another. Given you budget, I'd either scour the net for a used one or get the CMMG. Any model will do for what you want to do, but I would stick with a flat top.
Krusty783
Member
I just acquired my first AR last month, so I can relate to the information overload. It's easiest to buy a complete rifle, but you might have a hard time finding one at your budget. You might be able to find a sub $700 AR, but they can get expensive very quickly.
Your next option would be to buy a separate upper and lower (people say that can save you some money by bypassing an excise tax, but...). And you assemble an upper and lower by 2 takedown pins, so it's not a complicated assembly. In fact you'll be repeating half of this procedure most times you clean the rifle.
I'd recommend buying a complete upper because you need special tools to assemble one and since this is your first AR, you probably don't have the experience or tools to do it.
You can buy a complete or stripped lower. You can assemble a stripped lower & parts kit with a small punch and "normal" tools. And there are videos on Brownells, youtube, and elsewhere to show you how to do it.
The lower receiver is considered the firearm portion and is the only thing you have to purchase via FFL. You can buy upper parts or a reciever from anyone and have them shipped directly to you.
Also, Lower receivers from most manufacturers you will come across are fine. Daniel Defense (DD), Bravo Company USA (BCM) and Lewis Machine Tool (LMT) are some of the higher end parts makers, but lowers from CMMG, Panther (DPMS), Stag, MegaGator, Spikes, Rock River Arms (RRA) and others are fine.
Some companies have questionable manufacturing practices in their upper assemblies. Sometimes they don't include "proper" feed ramps, neglect to stake the bolts that hold the gas key onto the bolt carrier, which can allow the gas key to come loose, and other issues which don't meet the military specs and can lead to a less reliable (and accurate?) rifle.
Also, you must have a 16" barrel, including any permanently mounted extensions, to meet NFA requirements. If your barrel is < 16" it's considered a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) and needs a stamp. This is why you'll find 14.5" barrels with pinned muzzle brakes or flash hiders. Since you are planning on shooting 200-300 yds, an 18" or 20" barrel is probably more appropriate for you, but you probably know that.
You might want to check out m4carbine.net. It's an AR forum and they drink their own kool aid sometimes, but they do have some useful knowledge threads. You can also check out tacticalyellowvisor.net. It has a comparison chart that compares the major AR brands and explains all the typical features found in an AR. It's under Charts/M4 Chart and it has a link to it in google document form. (I'd provide links, but I'm not sure if that's against the TOS?)
Your next option would be to buy a separate upper and lower (people say that can save you some money by bypassing an excise tax, but...). And you assemble an upper and lower by 2 takedown pins, so it's not a complicated assembly. In fact you'll be repeating half of this procedure most times you clean the rifle.
I'd recommend buying a complete upper because you need special tools to assemble one and since this is your first AR, you probably don't have the experience or tools to do it.
You can buy a complete or stripped lower. You can assemble a stripped lower & parts kit with a small punch and "normal" tools. And there are videos on Brownells, youtube, and elsewhere to show you how to do it.
The lower receiver is considered the firearm portion and is the only thing you have to purchase via FFL. You can buy upper parts or a reciever from anyone and have them shipped directly to you.
Also, Lower receivers from most manufacturers you will come across are fine. Daniel Defense (DD), Bravo Company USA (BCM) and Lewis Machine Tool (LMT) are some of the higher end parts makers, but lowers from CMMG, Panther (DPMS), Stag, MegaGator, Spikes, Rock River Arms (RRA) and others are fine.
Some companies have questionable manufacturing practices in their upper assemblies. Sometimes they don't include "proper" feed ramps, neglect to stake the bolts that hold the gas key onto the bolt carrier, which can allow the gas key to come loose, and other issues which don't meet the military specs and can lead to a less reliable (and accurate?) rifle.
Also, you must have a 16" barrel, including any permanently mounted extensions, to meet NFA requirements. If your barrel is < 16" it's considered a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) and needs a stamp. This is why you'll find 14.5" barrels with pinned muzzle brakes or flash hiders. Since you are planning on shooting 200-300 yds, an 18" or 20" barrel is probably more appropriate for you, but you probably know that.
You might want to check out m4carbine.net. It's an AR forum and they drink their own kool aid sometimes, but they do have some useful knowledge threads. You can also check out tacticalyellowvisor.net. It has a comparison chart that compares the major AR brands and explains all the typical features found in an AR. It's under Charts/M4 Chart and it has a link to it in google document form. (I'd provide links, but I'm not sure if that's against the TOS?)
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RockyMtnTactical
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If you want the best possible rifle at the best possible price, get a complete Stag lower and a complete BCM upper. Colt Quality at a great price.
mljdeckard
Member
I certainly agree that anyone can build the lower. I smacked myself for not doing it years sooner.
And if you think your head is spinning now, order the free catalogs from Midway and Brownell's. All kinds of stuff you never knew you needed until you saw it in there. And if you BUILT that lower, you know it's no big deal to switch out a few parts on it LATER if you want to.
And if you think your head is spinning now, order the free catalogs from Midway and Brownell's. All kinds of stuff you never knew you needed until you saw it in there. And if you BUILT that lower, you know it's no big deal to switch out a few parts on it LATER if you want to.
thanks for all the good info. I was thinking a 16" barrel might be a little on the short side for my situation. Just found this today... http://www.del-ton.com/Rifle_Kit_p/rkt102.htm Looks like all I'd have to do is take the lower parts from that, put them together with this stripped lower... http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=191583 put the lower and upper together, and I've got a functioning AR w/ 20"bbl for $565 before magazines, shipping, and transfer? Which barrel option there would suite me better? Again, definitely won't be burning through ammo. Any problems putting a scope on this setup later on down the road?
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highorder
Member
How about a $60 lower?
Krusty783
Member
That looks like a pretty good deal from Delton right there. I have to admit, I jumped on the BCM bandwagon and I have a 16" mid upper w/ a MI 12" rail. I have to say it's very nice though.
I'd go with the chrome moly or the gov't profile. If you aren't carrying it all day the lightweight profile probably won't give you anything.
Make sure you order a Flat-top upper if you'll be using optics. This will replace the carry handle with a picatinny rail so you can mount any optics you want. I'd recommend spending the extra $25 and getting a flat top upper w/ m4 feed ramps because it hedges against any issues you might run into with finicky mags or russian ammo. I suspect that you will want to burn thru lots of ammo once you get your AR to the range.
Oh, and FYI, the front sight post is part of the gas block. If you want or don't mind the front sight being part of your optics picture you can use the std. A2 Front sight. If you don't want the front sight post in your view, you could get the YHM low profile gas block ($20) which is meant to fit inside a quad rail/handguard or you could get the YHM flip up front gas block ($75) which has a flip up front sight post. I think you can replace the gas block fairly easily at a later date if you're not sure what you want.
Do you have a scope already? If not, lots of people like Vortex Optics rifle scopes. I have a vortex strikefire red dot and it's a very good value and I've had no issues with it.
That CMMG lower works, or you could get a Spikes lower and get the Safe/Semi/Auto markings filled in with white & red paint. I think it's a nice touch and reminds me of HK guns because that's the only place I've seen do that. You can also customize Spikes lowers with laser engraved Jolly Rogers, American Flags, and other logos: http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/lowers-customize-your-lower-c-104_23.html
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Hanzo581
Member
I was pretty close to getting this when I was first looking for an AR. Pretty good deal IMO.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_763/products_id/53496
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_763/products_id/53496
You could definitely put your own together for less than you think. I have seen many completed lowers (buttstock, lower, parts kit) for under $150 around where I live, and you can get yourself a plain jane upper for around $400 from a few places. That would leave you with some play money for the personalization/customizations! I built my first, and I am already on a second. They are great guns!
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