AR pistol + Suppressor = legal rifle?

[SigSour]

OK, so I've been looking at a few rigs like this one: https://www.hardenedarms.com/ecProduct_325_43

and started thinking about the possibility of getting an AR-pistol and having a gunsmith pin a suppressor to it to make it 16"+ (after paying the tax stamp for the suppressor of course)

If I did that, any idea if I'd be able to put a shoulder stock on it and run is as a rifle? Not exactly sure how that works...

 

[MistWolf]

If your AR meets or exceeds the minimum barrel length and minimum overall length requirements, you may use it as a rifle

 

[jerkface11]

It would have to meet the ATFs definition of permanently affixed.

 

[BobTheTomato]

It would have to meet the ATFs definition of permanently affixed.

THIS! It must be permanently affixed or it is a SBR and you go to club fed for 10 yrs.

 

[jmorris]

That is kind of what I did on one of my form 1 cans, except I started with a rifle. Then cut down the barrel and welded then TIG welded the can on using silicon bronze filler, so without the end cap it's 16.125" long.





As you can see you wont be able to remove the barrel nut after this is done. So make sure you have what you will want on it forever and don't mess it up during install.

BTW that is a 9mm wouldn't build a .223 can the same.

 

[Theohazard]

If SBRs are legal in your state, why not just go with an SBR instead? Here in WA, SBRs were illegal for a while, so pinned-and-welded silencers were a common way to get around that. Now that SBRs are legal, virtually nobody does that anymore.

For me, the extra $200 stamp is worth the ability to move the silencer around to different hosts.

 

[Girodin]

For me, the extra $200 stamp is worth the ability to move the silencer around to different hosts.

I concur.

 

[SigSour]

For me, the extra $200 stamp is worth the ability to move the silencer around to different hosts.

I can see that. However, with a suppressor and an SBR that's two tax stamps. It was actually more of an idea if anything... the idea of having a suppressed rifle without it being 22+ inches long for CQB.

I wasn't even thinking about this until I saw a guy at the range with a suppressed 300 black out rifle and I have no idea what he was shooting but the reset click of his trigger was about as loud as the firing of the round itself. That freaked me out... then I saw the Hardened Arms rig and really started thinking about how I could make something like that happen.

I swear. Whenever I buy my "last gun" something else pops up that insists on being my "last gun".

 

[MistWolf]

It would have to meet the ATFs definition of permanently affixed.

You did catch the part where SigSour mentioned pinning the can, right?

 

[yugorpk]

If SBRs are legal in your state, why not just go with an SBR instead? Here in WA, SBRs were illegal for a while, so pinned-and-welded silencers were a common way to get around that. Now that SBRs are legal, virtually nobody does that anymore.

For me, the extra $200 stamp is worth the ability to move the silencer around to different hosts.

You cant build a SBR in Washington state. I am moving back into WA from Oregon and registered all my AR receivers as SBR's on form 1's. In WA you can buy one or move into the state with them but not build one yourself.

 

[MachIVshooter]

For me, the extra $200 stamp is worth the ability to move the silencer around to different hosts.

On thing you can do is make a suppressor housing that is permanently affixed; a sleeve that the can fits inside of, to where the barrel is still >16 even with the can removed.

Basically, a large, long flash can, attached permanently behind the muzzle threads.

 

[Swampman]

It's going to depend a lot on what caliber you choose and what can.

Unless you have something along the lines of what jmorris has (that can be disassembled for cleaning from the front), it would be a pain to clean your weapons bore.

Most cans designed to handle full power rifle rounds are sealed.
Guess what happens to your patches and excess bore cleaner when they come out of your muzzle behind the blast baffle of a permanently attached and sealed can.

Then consider that one lost patch might lead to a baffle strike that could totally destroy your suppressor.

Now think about turning your can into a one trick pony that can only be used on a single weapon.

The negatives far outweigh the cost of another $200 tax stamp or a permanently attached shroud like MachIVshooter suggested.

 

[Theohazard]

You cant build a SBR in Washington state. I am moving back into WA from Oregon and registered all my AR receivers as SBR's on form 1's. In WA you can buy one or move into the state with them but not build one yourself.

I'm well aware of that. I know all about poorly-written law that legalized SBRs but still appeared to make it illegal for an individual to make his own SBR on a Form 1. The ups-and-downs of the SBR Form 1 drama between the ATF and the state Department of Licensing that have taken place over the last year have been painful to watch.

But currently you can still buy an SBR here on a Form 4. So that means you can buy a factory SBR, or you can buy an SBR from someone else, or you can have a Class 2 SOT take your parts and Form 2 them as an SBR and then transfer them back to you on a Form 4. And since there are still plenty of ways to get a legal SBR here in WA, pinned-and-welded silencers on short barrels are almost unheard of now.

And the OP doesn't live here in Washington, he lives in Colorado. And as far as I know SBR Form 1s are legal there. So he has even less of a reason to permanently pin-and-weld a can to his barrel than we here in WA do.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Other than saving $200 on a transfer or build form, I don't see a huge benefit, but I do see a lot of negatives. The permanently installed can shroud / excessively oversized muzzle brake seems to be the better work around to avoid an SBR stamp.

 

[pintler]

FWIW, here's a commercial version of the permanent shroud:

http://www.tacticalsol.com/tsar300/

 

[SigSour]

FWIW, here's a commercial version of the permanent shroud:

http://www.tacticalsol.com/tsar300/

That's kind of what I was thinking. The Hardened Arms version (I think) allows the User to clean the suppressor somehow. Haven't looked into it much. I am thinking however of getting an AR pistol and seeing if I like it enough to convert it into some sort of sbr down the line...

Thanks for the replies.

 

[jerkface11]

You did catch the part where SigSour mentioned pinning the can, right?

I caught the part where simply pinning it doesn't count as permanent.

 

[jerkface11]

Aren't there rifle suppressors that you can take the shell off of and leave the core on the gun as a brake? That would strike me as a better option for permanent attachment.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I caught the part where simply pinning it doesn't count as permanent.

Blind pinning with a covering weld or high temp silver solder are actually two examples the ATF references as being permanently attached in their handbook. Based on the context he was clearly referring to the same pinning everyone and their uncle does with a flash suppressor to make a 14.7" barrel legal.

Mike

 

[jmorris]

Aren't there rifle suppressors that you can take the shell off of and leave the core on the gun as a brake? That would strike me as a better option for permanent attachment.

Yes, you could make a monocore and pin it to the barrel then just pull the tube off for cleaning.

 

[Hondo 60]

I swear. Whenever I buy my "last gun" something else pops up that insists on being my "last gun".

Believe me, I feel your pain

 

[pintler]

I like the permanently attached monocore idea.

What's the procedure for attaching a non-steel (aluminum or titanium, say) core permanently to a steel barrel? Blind pin to the barrel, then tig weld aluminum or titanium over the pin?

 

[Elkins45]

That is kind of what I did on one of my form 1 cans, except I started with a rifle. Then cut down the barrel and welded then TIG welded the can on using silicon bronze filler, so without the end cap it's 16.125" long.





As you can see you wont be able to remove the barrel nut after this is done. So make sure you have what you will want on it forever and don't mess it up during install.

BTW that is a 9mm wouldn't build a .223 can the same.

Just curious: how is the rear end cap attached to the tube? If it's not welded I can see how this might be an issue.

 

[jmorris]

It is welded, there is actually another disk, further forward, that is welded to the end of the barrel inside the can (if you look at the photo above closely you can see the plug welds). This is why it would appear that the baffle stack doesn't fill the entire can.

Makes alignment pretty easy vs just welding something on the very end.




Same concept on a removeable can.



And again, with a much larger initial chamber, to add volume.



Similar to the 9mm AR can it telescopes back over the barrel but much further and it is removeable.



This way your still at a 1 stamp rifle (16" barrel) with a shorter OAL than would be possible with a muzzle forward can, with the same volume.