AR Pistols w/Buffer Tube

[Onward Allusion]

Are these legal without NFA paperwork? Most of these AR pistols have some type of foam padding around the buffer tube. I suppose to avoid getting cuts & scrapes from it . . . but . . . Are there any ATF letters on this subject?

 

[pjeski]

Yes they are legal without NFA Paperwork as long as they have only the buffer tube and not a stock. An AR pistol must not have been configured as a rifle first.

 

[jdh]

A buffer tube without the ability to mount a stock. You cannot put on a buffer tube for an adjustable stock and leave the stock off. It has to be a pistol buffer tube.

 

[pjeski]

A buffer tube without the ability to mount a stock. You cannot put on a buffer tube for an adjustable stock and leave the stock off. It has to be a pistol buffer tube.

That is not correct. While it is a good idea to use a pistol receiver extension that cannot accept a stock, there is absolutely no requirement to do so.

 

[zoom6zoom]

and please, don't write any more letters.

 

[pjeski]

I know, right?

 

[USAF_Vet]

A buffer tube without the ability to mount a stock. You cannot put on a buffer tube for an adjustable stock and leave the stock off. It has to be a pistol buffer tube.

Nope, not correct at all.

Now if you have a pistol AR with a standard carbine style buffer tube and a stock that can fit, and no other potential use for the stock, such as a complete rifle, don't store the extra stock with the pistol. While I have never actually heard of anyone being prosecuted for constructive possession, the potential is there.

Personally, my AR pistol has a carbine style buffer tube, with a foam rubber sleeve over it for a comfortable cheek weld.

 

[jdh]

Perhaps y'all could tell that to the clerk on my work detail who was in for "Constructive Possession of an unregistered NFA item" for having an "extra" butt stock "in the vicinity" of an AR with a carbine buffer tube and a 10.5" barrel. He agreed to a five year plea bargain instead of taking the chance of the full ten years at trial.

The extra butt stock was the one he had taken off of his carbine when he put the magpul butt stock on it. BTW.

As with many things in life there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Not to mention the new agent fresh out of the academy looking to make a name for him/herself at the expense of your continued freedom and financial security.

I offered a suggestion to try to help avoid the hassle. Some members chose to take the opportunity as a male member measuring contest. I shant make the attempt the next time.

(Print that letter posted above for future reference. Perhaps the prosecutor in your case will accept it. Do be sure carefully read the paragraph beginning with With.)

 

[pjeski]

The clerk in your work detail wasn't in for having a carbine buffer tube on an AR pistol, he was in for having a stock with no other practical use than to go on that AR pistol. That or he was in for not having a good enough attorney. Or maybe he was in for a whole lot of other <deleted> and that's all they could get to stick, so he got to eat constructive possession. Either way, there's no law that says you have to use a "pistol" buffer tube.

 

[danez71]

Nope, not correct at all.

Now if you have a pistol AR with a standard carbine style buffer tube and a stock that can fit, and no other potential use for the stock, such as a complete rifle, don't store the extra stock with the pistol. While I have never actually heard of anyone being prosecuted for constructive possession, the potential is there.

Personally, my AR pistol has a carbine style buffer tube, with a foam rubber sleeve over it for a comfortable cheek weld.

It appears that we've now heard of a prosecution / conviction of that specific constructive possession.

I wonder what the whole story is.... I figured that those kind of charges were saved for when they want to put some one away for something but may not have evidence to convict them for what they really want to convict them for.

 

[USAF_Vet]

So, do I have to fear a random ATF agent is just going to wander into my home and open up my gun case just to check out the AR pistol, then search the rest of the house for an additional stock? Then verify that there are no other AR's around that can accept the stocks if he does find spares?

Please. One hearsay anecdote on the internet does not make it a fact. If jdh can find the link to the arrest and all court documents surrounding it, then maybe we'd better be able to determine just why it is this clerk got a constructive possession charge. I'm certain it wasn't random happenstance that got him busted with an extra stock and a pistol to go with it.

Show me the codified law where it states that an AR pistol must have a pistol style buffer tube.

In the meantime, google AR Pistol and see how many potential felons are out there, posting the evidence needed for a conviction on the internet.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Here's one. It's a fixed stock buffer tube for an A1 or A2 style stock.



Here's another. Unless there is a paracord wrap loophole I'm unaware of.



Another.

Tape exemption?




More paracord.




need I continue?

 

[pjeski]

need I continue?

Yes, please. Those are simply beautiful.

 

[yugorpk]

Perhaps y'all could tell that to the clerk on my work detail who was in for "Constructive Possession of an unregistered NFA item" for having an "extra" butt stock "in the vicinity" of an AR with a carbine buffer tube and a 10.5" barrel. He agreed to a five year plea bargain instead of taking the chance of the full ten years at trial.

Ive known guys who have done one year for a single illegal machinegun. Another who got two years for multiple illegal machine guns in his possession. Another who got eight years in the federal resort for a very large quantity of illegal MG's , grenade launchers, SBR's, straw purchases etc. and he had prior felony convictions.

5 years plea for a butt stock? That 10 year thing is the scare tactic. No one gets that. Someone had very, very bad counsel or someone is making things up!

 

[Theohazard]

Perhaps y'all could tell that to the clerk on my work detail who was in for "Constructive Possession of an unregistered NFA item" for having an "extra" butt stock "in the vicinity" of an AR with a carbine buffer tube and a 10.5" barrel. He agreed to a five year plea bargain instead of taking the chance of the full ten years at trial.

The extra butt stock was the one he had taken off of his carbine when he put the magpul butt stock on it. BTW.

As with many things in life there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Not to mention the new agent fresh out of the academy looking to make a name for him/herself at the expense of your continued freedom and financial security.

I offered a suggestion to try to help avoid the hassle. Some members chose to take the opportunity as a male member measuring contest. I shant make the attempt the next time.

(Print that letter posted above for future reference. Perhaps the prosecutor in your case will accept it. Do be sure carefully read the paragraph beginning with With.)

Regardless of that, what you posted was factually incorrect. Yes, it's a very good idea to use a pistol buffer tube that can't accept a stock in order to avoid any chance of getting busted for constructive possession if a stock happens to be nearby, but that -- in and of itself -- is not a requirement, so what you posted was wrong.

You can use any buffer tube you want on an AR pistol, even a carbine one that can accept a stock. But if you do, you'd be smart to keep all loose stocks away from it if you want to avoid problems with constructive possession. Or just use a pistol buffer tube to avoid the problem completely.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Since no one has posted the exact link I'll do so. After fighting it for decades, the ATF finally accepted the "close proximity" and "no useful purpose other than" wording of the TC decision and enshrined it is 2011-4: https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

A firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity in such a way that they: (a) serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; or (b) convert a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm.

That said, there is nothing wrong with extra steps to protect yourself, such as using a pistol buffer tube or a rifle tube with the stock screw threads drilled out.

Mike