AlexanderA
Member
The problem is that Colt itself is not close to standard specs. At least not historically. They may have reformed themselves recently.
AR Recommendation?
- Thread starter JCooperfan1911
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
Tommygunn
Member
No commercially available AR style is true "mil spec;" mil spec includes full auto / semi auto trigger group and we peons don't get those fun switches.
I have a recently made Colt and it's a pretty darn good m4orgery.
I have a recently made Colt and it's a pretty darn good m4orgery.
imac98374
Member
Oh no! It’s blurry on my mobile viewer.
I take back my rec. Cringe-worthy lower markings aren’t my thing. Heaven forbid you ever use defensive rifle defensively…
Plus the kids/grandkids will have questions you’d prefer not to answer when you bring it out on the range.
I take back my rec. Cringe-worthy lower markings aren’t my thing. Heaven forbid you ever use defensive rifle defensively…
Plus the kids/grandkids will have questions you’d prefer not to answer when you bring it out on the range.
ColoradoMinuteMan
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I’m no Colt fanboy, but I haven’t seen any evidence to support this. Perhaps in the early SPs and the non-Colt made non-LE models that they pitched as entry levels back 5 or so years ago, but every LE I’ve seen is good to go.
earplug
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Cost no object short barrel bedside gun. 300 Blackout subsonic. Your ears will thank you.
ColoradoMinuteMan
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No commercially available AR style is true "mil spec;" mil spec includes full auto / semi auto trigger group and we peons don't get those fun switches.
I have a recently made Colt and it's a pretty darn good m4orgery.
Mil-spec is a word that in my opinion has just become nearly meaningless. Even in its truest form it really only means that it is measurable against itself. It doesn’t mean it’s better, it doesn’t mean it’s worse relative to anything else. All it means is that it meats a specific specification. There are lots of AR companies making ARs that exceed the quality of what is being produced for the governement.
he may be talking about the decades where Colts uppers were incompatible with standard lowers, bolt carriers used weird specs, and trigger were specialized. That and the receiver shelf junk. And the Hbar.
ColoradoMinuteMan
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Yeah, that is where I was going with the early SPs but yeah, there was a whole strong in the early days as you say that were designed to be incompatible with M16 parts to avoid scrutiny. It’s been more than 20 years since that was the case though. The LE series are basically your typical M16 parts sans the FCG and the holes in the receiver to accept them, and 2.5 extra inches on the M4 barrel.
AlexanderA
Member
That's right. I've been collecting ARs since 1968, and there was a watershed moment in the late 1970's when the aftermarket (non-Colt) really started to take off. This brought into focus how far Colt had strayed from mil-spec. Eventually, due to competition, Colt started to wander back, but in the years when they had a monopoly, they were all too willing to make changes to mollify (unspoken) criticism from the ATF and elsewhere. An example of that was the episode, around 1970, when Colt withdrew the AR-15 from the market entirely, due to allegations that some people were trying to convert it to (uncontrolled) FA fire by removing the disconnector. When, after a few months, Colt re-introduced the AR, it was with the notched hammer and beveled bolt carrier, so that the gun would jam if the disconnector was removed. But, in some cases, such as when a standard firing pin was used, it would jam even if the disconnector was not removed. The whole history of the Colt AR is rife with such things.
Gone Hiking
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In addition to the higher end manufacturers mentioned, I'll add Geissele to the list.
https://geissele.com/super-duty-rifle-14-5-5-56mm-luna-black.html
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https://geissele.com/super-duty-rifle-14-5-5-56mm-luna-black.html
he
Charlie98
Member
I agree... about like 'new and improved!' doesn't really mean it's either new or improved... it's just different. There are 'MilSpec' drawings for government contracts, it doesn't make them better or worse, necessarily, just built to satisfy an outline.
I bought my big pin Colt H-Bar right when they came back into production in 1992... back then there were only about 3 other mainstream AR makers, and their reputations were not that good, so I spent the money on the Colt. It's proven to be a reasonable rifle... but it's not All That and a bag of chips.
Ramone
Member
imac98374
Member
Updated answer:
I like standard FSB uppers with MLOK compatible polymer handguards (I like Magpul MOE). Easy to take of for cleaning, durable, cheap, lightweight.
Uppers that fit:
https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-standard-14-5-mid-length-light-weight-upper-receiver-group/
https://spikestactical.com/collections/complete-uppers/5-56-midlength-chf-14-5/
This is assuming you’re willing to wait a bit to get exactly what you want. It’s kind of an unfortunate time to be getting into the AR game.
If you want it now, I think any in-stock FN, LWRC (DI’s under $1500 without sights) or Colt (6920s are back!) with a 14.5-16 inch barrel would likely serve your stated role well with a little bit of upmarket feel.
Keep in mind a P/W 14.5 vs 16 with a birdcage is a 1inh difference in overall length, but a $100-200 increase in cost in most cases. A 16 with midgas is a nice compromise, IMHO.
I like standard FSB uppers with MLOK compatible polymer handguards (I like Magpul MOE). Easy to take of for cleaning, durable, cheap, lightweight.
Uppers that fit:
https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-standard-14-5-mid-length-light-weight-upper-receiver-group/
https://spikestactical.com/collections/complete-uppers/5-56-midlength-chf-14-5/
This is assuming you’re willing to wait a bit to get exactly what you want. It’s kind of an unfortunate time to be getting into the AR game.
If you want it now, I think any in-stock FN, LWRC (DI’s under $1500 without sights) or Colt (6920s are back!) with a 14.5-16 inch barrel would likely serve your stated role well with a little bit of upmarket feel.
Keep in mind a P/W 14.5 vs 16 with a birdcage is a 1inh difference in overall length, but a $100-200 increase in cost in most cases. A 16 with midgas is a nice compromise, IMHO.
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
If I wanted something off the shelf but a tier above the budget stuff I'd probably go BCM.
Cemetery21
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trackskippy
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Ill second the S&W's. I think that would be a good starting gun, and at a fairly reasonable price. Ive had one (slightly different model) for about ten years now, and its been shot a lot, and never had any problems with it, and accuracy gas been good.
I have an old Colt, a couple of Armalites, and a number of PSA builds, and they all have been reliable and one is pretty much as accurate as the other, with the exception of the one Armalite, which was built as a match/precision type rifle.
Id also consider one of the 10"-11" "pistols" if you're looking and not yet committed. If you're looking for a HD or easy carry along gun, they really cant be beat. A lot handier in tight quarters, and plenty accurate out to 200 yards and then some. If you like the M1 Carbine, I think an AR "shorty" would be right up your alley.
Nature Boy
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Since no one ever mentions them I guess I will.
https://www.armalite.com/SACItem.as...Category=e8fd79e0-895a-4f19-ba81-a878bdafe698
https://www.armalite.com/SACItem.as...Category=e8fd79e0-895a-4f19-ba81-a878bdafe698
trackskippy
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I have basically the same version. Its an old "pre ban" and doesn't have a bayo lug. Its always been a good shooter. Armalite does make nice guns.
The only negative I have to say about the Armalites is, they can be mag picky, and anything not USGI in dimensions, might be problematical. GI mags work fine. I know some versions of the PMags wont fit in either of my guns. Dont know if they addressed that or not, and my guns are older.
Nature Boy
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I’ve never had any issues with GI mags or Pmags with mine
chicharrones
needs more ammo
My 2013 made ArmaLite M15 takes PMags of that era and newer just fine. I haven't tried any earlier made PMags.
DustyGmt
Member
I'm sorry if it has already been mentioned but BCM is a pretty good no compromise, duty grade company. I know you said pencil profile but they have an ELW (enhanced lightweight) and ELW Fluted barrel version that is very accurate and light. The upper will run you about $700 and complete lower about $200-$250, add a BCG and you're in just about a grand, a lil more with an optic/sights.
I have run one of their ELW MLok uppers quite a bit and quality is good and it is accurate, everything is nice and tight and the mid length is just a sweet shooter. You get no compromise quality for less money than the boutique, Gucci guns. Put an aimpoint or LPVO on there and call it a day. If you're against a RECCE rifle and just want the basic M4 profile with FSB they have those with mid length gas systems too. I think last time I checked they were $500 ish
Just my opinion.
I have run one of their ELW MLok uppers quite a bit and quality is good and it is accurate, everything is nice and tight and the mid length is just a sweet shooter. You get no compromise quality for less money than the boutique, Gucci guns. Put an aimpoint or LPVO on there and call it a day. If you're against a RECCE rifle and just want the basic M4 profile with FSB they have those with mid length gas systems too. I think last time I checked they were $500 ish
Just my opinion.
DustyGmt
Member
They are out of stock on these right now, but they have been updating inventory regularly and if you check the site or set up notification for back in stock items you'll be good to go. It's got the lightweight barrel you're looking for and it's a mid length. If you're set on carbine length they have those too. These are good uppers.
this is a 16" but they also offer a variety of barrel lengths including 14.5.
this is a 16" but they also offer a variety of barrel lengths including 14.5.
DustyGmt
Member
Or if you want short, handy house gun, lots of makers are putting out AR's in pistol configuration. Springfield, ruger and S&W I believe. I like the 10.5 pistols. This is a PSA build, but you can go off the rack in the same style.....
From my perspective most of the common AR's are are more alike than different. It is only after you get will into 4 digit pricing before there is a difference. And any of the $500-$900 guns will do what I need.
I can't find any fault with S&W or Ruger. I have 5 rifles, 2 are Ruger, along with a Rock River, PSA, and a Stag. The Rock River and Stag were bought several years ago so I can't vouch for current quality, but all 5 have been perfect for me. Never owned a Smith but those who do like them.
I have replaced the upper on the Rock River and one of the Rugers with PSA uppers. The Rock river was bought during the 1994-2004 AWB and came with a compliant upper for the time. The other Ruger started as a 10" pistol with arm brace that I converted to a rifle with another upper and a rifle stock.
From my perspective if I want an out of the box rifle I trust the more well known brands like Smith and Ruger for the company reputation and later customer support. The others may be just as well made, I just feel better buying from a brand I know and trust. And there isn't a huge price difference.
If forced to keep only one it would be the Ruger MPR. Mine has an 18" barrel which many consider too long, but I don't find 2" to be a deal killer. That was the only option when I bought mine, but I see they offer a 16" version now.
Ruger® AR-556® MPR Autoloading Rifle Model 8542
I can't find any fault with S&W or Ruger. I have 5 rifles, 2 are Ruger, along with a Rock River, PSA, and a Stag. The Rock River and Stag were bought several years ago so I can't vouch for current quality, but all 5 have been perfect for me. Never owned a Smith but those who do like them.
I have replaced the upper on the Rock River and one of the Rugers with PSA uppers. The Rock river was bought during the 1994-2004 AWB and came with a compliant upper for the time. The other Ruger started as a 10" pistol with arm brace that I converted to a rifle with another upper and a rifle stock.
From my perspective if I want an out of the box rifle I trust the more well known brands like Smith and Ruger for the company reputation and later customer support. The others may be just as well made, I just feel better buying from a brand I know and trust. And there isn't a huge price difference.
If forced to keep only one it would be the Ruger MPR. Mine has an 18" barrel which many consider too long, but I don't find 2" to be a deal killer. That was the only option when I bought mine, but I see they offer a 16" version now.
Ruger® AR-556® MPR Autoloading Rifle Model 8542
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