Ar trigger
- Thread starter Arobbins
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dprice3844444
member
gisselle ssa
greyling22
Member
I would start with a a trigger job. they are pretty easy, are a huge improvement, and cost virtually nothing. If you don't like it, or you screw it up, buy an aftermarket trigger. You will be replacing all the trigger parts you modify anyway with aftermarket, so you have risked nothing, and potentially saved a lot of money. My trigger job AR has about a 4lb trigger with minimal creep, very little takeup, and little overtravel. It is a not a match trigger. It is not a target trigger. It is not a $200 trigger either 
It is better than most hunting rifle triggers that predated the accutriggers.
Just keep in mind that the AR crowd is by and large a funny bunch. From what I can tell, no amount of money is too much to spend on one, no fanboy is too enthusiastic, and no part can ever be overbuilt. Common thought seems to be that if it's not top of line it must be garbage. Or "I read about this in a magazine and bought it so it is the best" So take a lot of opinions with some salt.
BMW's are nice, but not everybody needs a BMW.
It is better than most hunting rifle triggers that predated the accutriggers. Just keep in mind that the AR crowd is by and large a funny bunch. From what I can tell, no amount of money is too much to spend on one, no fanboy is too enthusiastic, and no part can ever be overbuilt. Common thought seems to be that if it's not top of line it must be garbage. Or "I read about this in a magazine and bought it so it is the best" So take a lot of opinions with some salt.
BMW's are nice, but not everybody needs a BMW.
As Greyling22 stated, you have nothing to loose if you want to try working on your existing trigger. I have several friends who used JP springs and modified the hammer to come up with pretty nice triggers. I almost did the same but finally decided to install a Geissele SSA-E trigger which I'm extremely happy with.
03Marine4Life
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- Jan 15, 2013
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- 3
I'm not sure what the above is talking about AR fans being funny, but I think it all depends on how you like the trigger. If you think you have to much "creep" or don't like it for any other various reasons, then yea do a trigger job. I have a Windham Weaponry WW-15 and it has a good break and limited creep so I intend to leave it as is. Research any new trigger assembly before buying, it's not necessarily a get what you pay for, but there is some overpriced garbage out there. Also there's cheap great triggers too. Me I love AR's, but that's probably being from the military.
browningguy
Member
In spite of what some will tell you, there is a huge difference between the crap most manufacturers put in their AR's and a well built match grade trigger. Geissele, Rock River 2 stage, CMC, Timney, JP all make excellent triggers depending on the price point you are looking at.
Yes, I am fanboy, I love me a good trigger.
Yes, I am fanboy, I love me a good trigger.
greyling22
Member
I'm not saying everybody who likes a good trigger is a fanboy. And I just love a good trigger. My military pattern rifles and my shotguns are the only things I own that doen't have really nice triggers on them. I was just cautioning the op that there are a lot of under educated and over-opinionated people in the ar15 world. There probably isn't a higher percentage of them than there are say, sphinx arms fanboys, but there are just so blasted many of them. And I get tired of the "buy the best and trash the rest, even if I have no experience of whatever is actually being discussed" mentality.
But back to the topic at hand, he may want a gisselle SSA, but I still think he should try a trigger job first. It might only be a pound heavier and there are a lot of other things you can do with trigger money: ammo, flowers for wife, first reloading setup, electric bill, 2 years supply of ice cream, a 10/22 for a child, gas for a month, a new aquarium, feed 10 starving kids on africa, feed 1 jr high boy in america for an afternoon...............
But back to the topic at hand, he may want a gisselle SSA, but I still think he should try a trigger job first. It might only be a pound heavier and there are a lot of other things you can do with trigger money: ammo, flowers for wife, first reloading setup, electric bill, 2 years supply of ice cream, a 10/22 for a child, gas for a month, a new aquarium, feed 10 starving kids on africa, feed 1 jr high boy in america for an afternoon...............
dprice3844444
member
accidental discharges with injuries,the trigger will be checked by very qualified specialists.lawyers will own your butt if you do not have any type of certification for doing the work.
rskent
Member
Really, I always thought that if I accidentally shot someone, the lawyers would own my butt irregardless of what kind of trigger I had. That darn personal responsibility thing.
Greyling22 pretty much said it all. I have three lowers with three different triggers. One Gisselle service rifle trigger, one Jewell, and a spiffed up mill spec. They all make the rifles go bang.
So after that, it's pretty much up to you. If you have the extra money and the need a Gisselle is well worth what it costs. If you don't have the money or the need, a fifty cent set screw
and a little elbow grease will do a lot for a mill spec trigger.
MtnCreek
Member
There's probably a lot of people here that can do a trigger job on an AR and get a good, reliable trigger, but I'm not one of those people. I did a redneck trigger job on a rifle several years ago that worked great for a while, then it malfunctioned.
Not saying people can't or even shouldn't, just saying it aint for everybody.
Also, weigh reliability against feel when choosing a trigger.
Not saying people can't or even shouldn't, just saying it aint for everybody.
Also, weigh reliability against feel when choosing a trigger.
greyling22
Member
Hundred dollars for a trigger job?! Google the 50 cent trigger job. You need a set screw and a pair of wire cutters. And the mechanical ability to install pins back into the gun. (Same requirement to install a new trigger)
scottishkat
Member
American gold trigger is sweet as well it was fairly expensive though like 250.00. They make a drop in replacement. The trigger in My Bushmaster was really poor. If you have any freinds that are police they probably know a certified armorer.
Shoot straight
Shoot straight
Nickb45
Member
The Rock River two stage trigger is pretty good. (Not sure what it cost mine came in the rifle). I shoot a lot of bolt actions and 1911s so I'm use to a good trigger, I haven't felt the need to do anything to the RRA trigger yet.
I have the Geissele Hi-speed national match. It is quite good. The only thing is that I have found that I can't get Geissele triggers to reset reliably with my CMMG 22lr dedicated upper. That's ok, I've got another lower with a more conventional trigger in it. The Geissele hi-speed national match is probably the best target trigger out there for AR's.
ngnrd
Member
I'm very happy with my CMC trigger for hunting and range work. The Geissele's get great reviews. But, even though they're more expensive, I'm just not convinced that the extra cost actually gets you a noticeably better trigger than the CMC.
Bottom line - There are a bunch of really good choices for trigger upgrades out there these days. And in regard to creep, crispness, and pull weight, they're all substantially better than the typical inexpensive mil-spec triggers that most rifles and LPK's come with.
Bottom line - There are a bunch of really good choices for trigger upgrades out there these days. And in regard to creep, crispness, and pull weight, they're all substantially better than the typical inexpensive mil-spec triggers that most rifles and LPK's come with.
Lock time is overrated on a 2MOA gun that is GI spec. Even with the better 1MOA barrels and some good handloads, the average shooter will never see the lock time improvement. And, it's been argued it doesn't really exist.
That is an issue with the design of the standard AR trigger and hammer. If you reduce the spring pressure to lighten the trigger/sear engagement, it reduces the amount of load on the hammer. A slower hammer results. Lightening the hammer may not help, as the mass is lessened. Overall, some report doing all the work, getting a light trigger, and having misfire issues with hard military primers. Oops.
The #1 accessory on most expensive competition and target triggers is the adjustable set screw. I purchased a lower with it already included. I put on a cheap but quality trigger parts kit, and the result with no adjustment was just like I remembered on my issue rifles. It had a lot of creep, and some grit.
Adjusted to eliminate the creep to a reasonable minimum, it got rid of 85% of it, which also got rid of 85% of the grit. If it doesn't reset all the way back, it doesn't travel over it again. That is the simplicity and beauty of the screw, which is why so many use it.
The trigger I have now is a lot more like the competition triggers I used in International .22, short, crisp, and nice. It doesn't have the lightness, but on a field or hunting rifle, a light trigger isn't needed. Safety in a trip hazard environment is more important. And it's been proven on a lot of tactical (not precision) ranges that it makes no difference whatsoever. IF Mas Ayoob can win matches with a NY ten pound trigger in a Glock, I shouldn't worry about it when I see a deer in the sights of my AR. I won't have all that much time to waste, anyway.
As for the rest of it, you can stone the trigger and sear, but it's been reported some parts aren't thru hardened, just surface case hardened and it's not deep. Grinding it away has led to some complaints about gunsmiths who offered that work on your parts. It was a great trigger for a few months or a few thousand rounds, then it went bad. Not their fault, it's the triggers. They aren't made for it.
If a complete trigger is wanted, then ALG Defense can supply one. It's Amy Giselle's company, but oriented to the lower priced market, which means you get quality function without the high end pricing. http://algdefense.com/triggers.html
That is an issue with the design of the standard AR trigger and hammer. If you reduce the spring pressure to lighten the trigger/sear engagement, it reduces the amount of load on the hammer. A slower hammer results. Lightening the hammer may not help, as the mass is lessened. Overall, some report doing all the work, getting a light trigger, and having misfire issues with hard military primers. Oops.
The #1 accessory on most expensive competition and target triggers is the adjustable set screw. I purchased a lower with it already included. I put on a cheap but quality trigger parts kit, and the result with no adjustment was just like I remembered on my issue rifles. It had a lot of creep, and some grit.
Adjusted to eliminate the creep to a reasonable minimum, it got rid of 85% of it, which also got rid of 85% of the grit. If it doesn't reset all the way back, it doesn't travel over it again. That is the simplicity and beauty of the screw, which is why so many use it.
The trigger I have now is a lot more like the competition triggers I used in International .22, short, crisp, and nice. It doesn't have the lightness, but on a field or hunting rifle, a light trigger isn't needed. Safety in a trip hazard environment is more important. And it's been proven on a lot of tactical (not precision) ranges that it makes no difference whatsoever. IF Mas Ayoob can win matches with a NY ten pound trigger in a Glock, I shouldn't worry about it when I see a deer in the sights of my AR. I won't have all that much time to waste, anyway.
As for the rest of it, you can stone the trigger and sear, but it's been reported some parts aren't thru hardened, just surface case hardened and it's not deep. Grinding it away has led to some complaints about gunsmiths who offered that work on your parts. It was a great trigger for a few months or a few thousand rounds, then it went bad. Not their fault, it's the triggers. They aren't made for it.
If a complete trigger is wanted, then ALG Defense can supply one. It's Amy Giselle's company, but oriented to the lower priced market, which means you get quality function without the high end pricing. http://algdefense.com/triggers.html
Arizona_Mike
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- Joined
- Feb 15, 2013
- Messages
- 3,452
I'm a huge fan of the Geissele High Speed. I have mine set up with 3lb+1.5lb.
Mike
Mike
There are a couple ways to go. You could buy an ALG ACT trigger which is smooth, but has a 5 pound pull $65.
Or you can get the Geissele S2G for around $160 which is the SAME trigger as the Geissele SSA $210, but is a little more difficult to install (not much really).
The reason it is cheaper than the SSA is that Geissele reduced the machining required to produce a SSA by putting clips on the trigger pins of the S2G to hold the trigger pins in place. Check it out.
Or you can get the Geissele S2G for around $160 which is the SAME trigger as the Geissele SSA $210, but is a little more difficult to install (not much really).
The reason it is cheaper than the SSA is that Geissele reduced the machining required to produce a SSA by putting clips on the trigger pins of the S2G to hold the trigger pins in place. Check it out.
rskent
Member
Arobbins, it never hurts to try the cheap way first. If you decide to modify the legs on your hammer spring.
You might want to just bend them both up 30 degrees and not cut one off as suggested in many of the
you tube videos. I used a cut off one for a while and got a few light strikes. After putting a spring in with
both legs bent, not cut, no more problems.
You might want to just bend them both up 30 degrees and not cut one off as suggested in many of the
you tube videos. I used a cut off one for a while and got a few light strikes. After putting a spring in with
both legs bent, not cut, no more problems.
skywalkrNCSU
Member
I love my Geissele SSA-E but would be happy with any Geissele really.
Whatever you do, don't shoot one until you are prepared to put a $200 trigger on every AR you have
Whatever you do, don't shoot one until you are prepared to put a $200 trigger on every AR you have
There is another technique used to smooth the sear engagement on the AR trigger.
With the upper off the lower, you basically cock the hammer, add more pressure with the off hand, and pull the trigger. The important detail is to have a block or cushion to prevent the hammer hitting the front wall. Things tend to get damaged doing that, pressure or not.
You are basically dry firing the sear engagement with a lot more pressure on the faces, to seat them in and lap them together. Some have gone so far as to use a very fine lapping compound, even as fine as metal polish. But, as said, you can go too far with that if the surface hardening is just a few thousandths deep.
Doing that kind of dry firing with the extra pressure on the hammer results in the parts breaking in faster - much faster than the typical 2-3000 rounds that others cite it takes in normal use. Triggers DO break in, the microscopic imperfections need friction and repetition to smooth out. You are just adding a lot more pressure to accelerate the friction and decrease the repetitions.
Do that ten times and there will be a significant difference from the first pull to the last. No one knows what the magic number of pulls is for any specific setup, but when it seems that the last ten repetitions aren't doing anything, that will do. You get most of the improvement up front.
Of all the gunsmithing tips and tricks I researched while building my AR, the set screw and pressure lapping the sear were the two things with the biggest return on the expense with the fewest negatives. If you don't want or need to brag about how much a trigger cost, there are alternatives, and that is to research how others who couldn't simply drop one it did it.
With the upper off the lower, you basically cock the hammer, add more pressure with the off hand, and pull the trigger. The important detail is to have a block or cushion to prevent the hammer hitting the front wall. Things tend to get damaged doing that, pressure or not.
You are basically dry firing the sear engagement with a lot more pressure on the faces, to seat them in and lap them together. Some have gone so far as to use a very fine lapping compound, even as fine as metal polish. But, as said, you can go too far with that if the surface hardening is just a few thousandths deep.
Doing that kind of dry firing with the extra pressure on the hammer results in the parts breaking in faster - much faster than the typical 2-3000 rounds that others cite it takes in normal use. Triggers DO break in, the microscopic imperfections need friction and repetition to smooth out. You are just adding a lot more pressure to accelerate the friction and decrease the repetitions.
Do that ten times and there will be a significant difference from the first pull to the last. No one knows what the magic number of pulls is for any specific setup, but when it seems that the last ten repetitions aren't doing anything, that will do. You get most of the improvement up front.
Of all the gunsmithing tips and tricks I researched while building my AR, the set screw and pressure lapping the sear were the two things with the biggest return on the expense with the fewest negatives. If you don't want or need to brag about how much a trigger cost, there are alternatives, and that is to research how others who couldn't simply drop one it did it.
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