I have used a couple of them, I wouldn't use one for a precision rifle.
AR10 realistic accuracy goal
- Thread starter irishlad
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irishlad
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IMHO it's the best for the $$$ and that group looks great.
vanfunk
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I got into AR-10s in the past year and have a Daniel Defense DD5v3 (16” barrel) and a LWRC R.E.P.R. 20”, both 7.62x51. At first I was put off by what I considered to be lackluster accuracy with M80 ball; i was seeing 2.5-3” groups with military ball. Focusing first on the DD I replaced the awful milspec trigger with a Geissele SSA-E and started buying 168 and 175 grain match ammo. Big difference. The DD is now a 3/4” rifle with the occasional 1/2” 100 yard group when I really concentrate and the Gods cooperate. . The LWRC came with a Geissele SSA-E out of the box and probably a better barrel (though I think both barrels are made by Proof now?). The “Reaper” went from a 3” rifle with surplus to a 1/2” rifle with good ammo. I suppose it seems entirely too obvious to point this out but trigger (and trigger time!) and ammo have a HUGE effect on accuracy. Oh, and glass - maybe a different talk but I’ve learned not to skimp. Right now I don’t think I’d see a benefit from going to a Schmidt and Bender $6k scope but the necessary optical quality will not be there in a $449 scope either. I think $1000-1500 will get you into some great glass for shooting out to 600 yards.
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irishlad
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vanfunk
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Good point! Forgot to mention - I put a LaRue trigger in my Mk12 Mod 0 clone. It’s beautifully made and mine popped right in with no issues. I don’t think it’s quite as good as the Geissele SSA-E but it’s 90% of the trigger for 35% of the money. Total no-brainer.
InTheSwamp
Member
They're different, all right. For pure precision, Geissele is my winner. You hit the wall, then a smooth second stage transition till it fires. In contrast, when you hit the LRT wall, there is no "transition" so to speak. It's rather a "hard" stop, but you KNOW if you keep squeezing, no matter how light the squeeze, it'll go! In my rather short AR experience, it would make a good HD, SHTF, etc., trigger. You get a clear and stout warning before the bullet goes down range.
I have limited experience with the FCD, but I'd take it as a hybrid of sorts. You hit the wall, then it breaks like a wine glass. Perhaps not as smooth as the G, but close enough...It might become my fave given the price - more practice is needed.
My worthless 2 cents.
A rifle capable of sub MOA accuracy is no oddity, although I do find shooting accurately with AR pattern rifles to be more difficult.
The recipe for an accurate rifle is not a big mystery. Start with a quality barrel. Personally, I'd avoid Faxon. If you want something in the same range, maybe try a Ballistic Advantage. They haven't been 100%, but more hit than miss. Still, I quit using them as well. They're a good bang for the buck, but they do crank out some turds and in my limited experience, get lower velocity than the barrels I'm using now. That's just a personal observation. I haven't verified that with anything but the chrony I'm using.
I would pay attention to the fit of the barrel extension to the receiver. You want good support all the way around the extension.
My goto for accuracy builds, in the past, has been Krieger. I can't say they are the best barrels, because I haven't tried everything, but I've never been disappointed. I've recently been messing with Criterion chrome lined barrels. They shoot really well and are arguably better suited for hard use, if that's what you need.
As for the gas block, I did my last personal build using a rifle speed. They're pricey, but work well and appear to be very robust. Just be aware that they don't fit under all handguards, but the modifications I had to do weren't hard. They also take up a lot of space and will render much of the mlok rail space around them unusable.
A good trigger will help a lot as well. It won't make the rifle more accurate, but will certainly make it easier to shoot more accurately.
I avoid spring kits. I prefer triggers with full power hammer springs. Some of the stuff I've shot had really hard primers. I like the geissele triggers. Yes, they are pricey, but I don't think that anyone can say that they are bad triggers.
Honestly, if we're just discussing the potential accuracy of an AR10, yes they can be pretty dang accurate, but if you're chasing the utmost in accuracy, you're barking up the wrong tree. You could save yourself a lot of money and headaches by getting into a bolt gun.
I've had a couple that were nothing more than a 700 action with a krieger barrel fitted to them with a little bolt work that shot zero 5 shot groups using berger bullets, reloader 15 powder and winchester brass.
The recipe for an accurate rifle is not a big mystery. Start with a quality barrel. Personally, I'd avoid Faxon. If you want something in the same range, maybe try a Ballistic Advantage. They haven't been 100%, but more hit than miss. Still, I quit using them as well. They're a good bang for the buck, but they do crank out some turds and in my limited experience, get lower velocity than the barrels I'm using now. That's just a personal observation. I haven't verified that with anything but the chrony I'm using.
I would pay attention to the fit of the barrel extension to the receiver. You want good support all the way around the extension.
My goto for accuracy builds, in the past, has been Krieger. I can't say they are the best barrels, because I haven't tried everything, but I've never been disappointed. I've recently been messing with Criterion chrome lined barrels. They shoot really well and are arguably better suited for hard use, if that's what you need.
As for the gas block, I did my last personal build using a rifle speed. They're pricey, but work well and appear to be very robust. Just be aware that they don't fit under all handguards, but the modifications I had to do weren't hard. They also take up a lot of space and will render much of the mlok rail space around them unusable.
A good trigger will help a lot as well. It won't make the rifle more accurate, but will certainly make it easier to shoot more accurately.
I avoid spring kits. I prefer triggers with full power hammer springs. Some of the stuff I've shot had really hard primers. I like the geissele triggers. Yes, they are pricey, but I don't think that anyone can say that they are bad triggers.
Honestly, if we're just discussing the potential accuracy of an AR10, yes they can be pretty dang accurate, but if you're chasing the utmost in accuracy, you're barking up the wrong tree. You could save yourself a lot of money and headaches by getting into a bolt gun.
I've had a couple that were nothing more than a 700 action with a krieger barrel fitted to them with a little bolt work that shot zero 5 shot groups using berger bullets, reloader 15 powder and winchester brass.
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irishlad
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The LRT was on backorder for at least a month, I canceled it and ordered a FCD. It'll be be here in a couple of days. Looking forward to trying it .
lionking
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To add my part to this thread regarding PSA AR-10 I got the one with 20'' barrel and Geissle SSA-E trigger a few months ago it is really nice but VERY finicky with ammo, only three factory match ammo brands have consistently been under 1 MOA at 100 yds with some brands stretching out to 3 or 4 MOA. Federal Gold medal 175 gr, SIG 168 gr OTM and actually Armscor match 7.62x51 168 gr. I put a Arkin EP-5 on it.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...de-15-lightweight-m-lok-str-ssa-e-rifle6.html
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...de-15-lightweight-m-lok-str-ssa-e-rifle6.html
Varminterror
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To the OP, unless you have a Time Machine and travel back to 1995, and unless you like having your AR-10 fail to feed, don’t do this.
Neck sizing only does not improve accuracy, at all, and has been abandoned by precision shooting sports.
My application is clanging steel to 1000 yards at my local range 12 miles from my house. You back your vehicle up to the benches so weigh is not an issue. I figure heavier helps with recoil. I own a 20" PSA PA10 (308).
I'm looking at a 6.5cm barrel from BHW. Less than $400 seems cheap.
What twist, length and gas block?
I was guessing 1:8 and 24" with .75" gas block.
Should I get a thicker barrel and swap the gas block or stick with the .75 gas block?
Any input/recommendations is appreciated.
Varminterror
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Personally, I would get into at LEAST a .875” gas journal, and .936” is favorable. Both of my long range competition built gas guns are .875”, and both have a couple of pounds of weight bolted to the forend to correct the balance. I’d rather have that as barrel weight than just ballast, so I do kinda wish they were .936” blocks. I use “National Match” or “DCM” contours on all of my general purpose rifles - it’s heavy behind the block, then .72” nominal from gas block to the muzzle, but they’re actually pretty light barrels, so I don’t use them for dedicated long range rifles. Great for compromising between some fixed position and some hand carry shooting, but for a 1,000yrd bench gun, I’d use .936” if it will fit under the handguard I wanted to use, or I’d make .875” fit under.
I’d think pretty hard on getting 1:7” as well - I’ve done ok with 1:8” 6.5creed, but I’d rather have the extra assurance.
I would get the 24” - and only because they don’t offer 26”.
A 6.5creed 1:8” twist 24” with .75” block would do just fine, but if I’m building a 1,000 yard rifle, it would be 1:7” 26” (but would concede to 24”) with .875” or .936” block (and I might even see about a Rifle+1 or +2 gas system).
DustyGmt
Member
Do I get a prize if I guess the knife in your pocket? Spyderco Delica/Endura?
InTheSwamp
Member
BHW is having a 40% OFF sale now. Thinking about a Semi Bull 1:7 20" Creed to replace my Faxon Big Gunner...thinking...thinking...
Thanks, just ordered one. Operation lipstick-on-a-pig with my PSA PA10 continues. Now I need to source a .936 adjustable gas block. Wilson has one....
InTheSwamp
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irishlad
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It is a Spyderco, can't remember the model. Bought it at Walmart about 10 years ago. Can't believe I haven't lost it yet! Good eyes!
DustyGmt
Member
Good taste in blades sir. If it was from Wal mart I suspect it's a Spyderco Tenacious. Great full flat ground blade, nobody makes a decent standard production sub $100 slicer blade better than Spyderco.....
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irishlad
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irishlad
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Thanks for all the replies. After putting in a LaRue Trigger and some load development it's a good shooter. I wasn't much of an AR fan before, I think I've been converted! I really like the Forward Controls Design trigger on my AR15 also.
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InTheSwamp
Member
0.55 MOA is a heck of a group for any AR rifle. 
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irishlad
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0.55 MOA is a heck of a group for any AR rifle.
Thanks. Appreciate all your help.
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