AR15: Commercial vs. Milspec buffer tube - Question

[gunsrfun1]

I need a common sense answer to this question, so I come to THR. I don't want to get too much into the weeds with tensile strength, type of aluminum alloy, etc.

I'm going to get a RRA Operator stock for my AR. I have one on my other AR and really like it.

RRA gives two options (they only sell the stock as part of a kit, not separately): One kit comes with a Comm tube ($140), and one comes with a Mil-Spec tube ($160). So, $20 difference. They told me they use Comm tubes as their standard. I think because they are cheaper to produce. Here is the link to the two kits (scroll down to see all options):

RRA Operator CAR

Rock River Arms, Inc. offers a complete line of American made, custom built AR15 style rifles.

www.rockriverarms.com

This will be used on a range gun, maybe some occasional competition (but I doubt it.) But I'm not going to war with it.

My other gun with the Comm tube and Operator stock hasn't given me any problems so far. Plus, getting a Comm kit would have both guns being consistent in the tubes they use.

However, I don't want to be penny-wise and pound-foolish to save $20.

Am I GTG with the Comm tube, or is there a compelling PRACTICAL reason to go with Mil-spec? It looks like most companies (like Magpul) make both versions of their stocks, should I ever want to change out.

Remember, talking practical differences only.

Thanks

 

[lysanderxiii]

Mil-spec gives a wider range of options "off the shelf", you don't see many commercial stock in stores. If you are buying on-line exclusively, buy either.

 

[gotboostvr]

Edited due to erroneous information.

It depends what your lower is threaded for.

Milspec and commercial buffer tubes use different thread patterns.

Use whichever your lower is threaded for.

If you're not sure, pull the commercial tube off your other rifle and see if it'll fit. If the lower was made in the last decade, it'll almost certainly be milspec.

 

[gunsrfun1]

Pretty sure that is not correct, from what I have read and heard. And I just called RRA and gave them my S/Ns, and they said my receivers can use either tube.

I know there are minor differences in the two thread structures, but I do not want to get into that. Remember, my question is strictly related to PRACTICAL differernces.

 

[Mk-211]

 

[taliv]

Pretty sure that is not correct, from what I have read and heard. And I just called RRA and gave them my S/Ns, and they said my receivers can use either tube.

I know there are minor differences in the two thread structures, but I do not want to get into that. Remember, my question is strictly related to PRACTICAL differernces.

You’re correct; gotbooster is not. Lower ar15 receivers only have one thread pattern and both com and mil work with it.

As to your question, it’s up to you. I like mil spec. It’s worth $20 to me. But most civilian ARs prob use commercial. There are tens of millions of them out there and I can only think of a couple instances of failure and no guarantee that a mil version would have survived.

There difference in the number of positions is prob the biggest practical difference but even that is pretty minor.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Most "mil-spec" buffer tubes are usually mil-spec in dimensions only, as is the case with almost all "mil-spec" AR parts.

 

[taliv]

Most "mil-spec" buffer tubes are usually mil-spec in dimensions only, as is the case with almost all "mil-spec" AR parts.

Cite?

 

[12Bravo20]

Most "mil-spec" buffer tubes are usually mil-spec in dimensions only, as is the case with almost all "mil-spec" AR parts.

Being machined to the correct dimensions IS part of being MIL-SPEC

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Being machined to the correct dimensions IS part of being MIL-SPEC

Consumer-grade "mil-spec" isn't the same as genuine US military-grade Mil-Spec.

Consumer-grade mil-spec parts are usually intended to be machined or manufactured to Mil-Spec dimension ONLY. They usually aren't manufactured using the specified manufacturing and processing standards.

Different materials are often used.

They aren't inspected with anywhere near the same quality assurance rigors to ensure the parts comply with specified dimensions. The offset buffer retainer is an example of an aftermarket part designed to compensate for commercial-grade "mil-spec" lower receivers that weren't properly machined to Mil-Spec dimensions.

 

[mcb]

It is a lot more expensive to make a mil-spec tube, dimensionally speaking, using a method other than the mil-spec method. The mil-spec tube is an impact extrusion using 7075-T6 aluminum, and a rolled thread rather than a cut thread common with a commercial tubes. So if your making a mil-spec tubes dimensionally the easiest and cheapest way to achieve that geometry is with an impact extrusion and rolled thread. To do it in nearly any other way requires more machine time and cost. They might cut corners on the material but why do that if you have invested in the impact extrusion and roll threader.

The commercial tube was created to facility using simpler (cheaper) extrusions (usually 6061-T6) due to the cost of impact extrusions and roll threading machines. To make that affordable on less specialize machines the OD of the tub was made the same as the major diameter of the threads rather than the small OD Mil-spec version that leave the tube roughly the minor diameter of the threads.

More frequently than we want to admit the mil-spec method is also the cheapest method to get there. To make it cheaper, ie the commercial tube, they had to change the dimension to actually make it possible to make it cheaper using cheaper methods and materials..

Personally I would spend the extra $20 on a mil-spec tube.

 

[12Bravo20]

Consumer-grade "mil-spec" isn't the same as genuine US military-grade Mil-Spec.

Consumer-grade mil-spec parts are usually intended to be machined or manufactured to Mil-Spec dimension ONLY. They usually aren't manufactured using the specified manufacturing and processing standards.

Different materials are often used.

They aren't inspected with anywhere near the same quality assurance rigors to ensure the parts comply with specified dimensions. The offset buffer retainer is an example of an aftermarket part designed to compensate for commercial-grade "mil-spec" lower receivers that weren't properly machined to Mil-Spec dimensions.

I won't argue with you even though I do have years of experience dealing with military specifications. Have a good day.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Google "6061-T6 mil-spec buffer tube" and you'll see plenty of vendors peddling a "mil-spec" buffer tube that isn't constructed from Mil-Spec required 7075-T6 aluminum.

You'll also find "mil-spec" AR receivers constructed of 6065-T6 aluminum instead of 7075-T6 aluminum.

And... "mil-spec" billet receivers aren't Mil-Spec.

 

[Lo-Profile]

I use Mil-spec due to the more common availability of parts if I ever decide to change configuration.
Most LGS in my area only sell Mil-spec

 

[gotboostvr]

I won't argue with you even though I do have years of experience dealing with military specifications. Have a good day.

Commercial vendors don't have to adhere to the actual Milspec TDP to advertise parts as such.

 

[mcb]

Commercial vendors don't have to adhere to the actual Milspec TDP to advertise parts as such.

...and there are parts out there that are better than mil-spec. Buyer be aware...

 

[12Bravo20]

For the OP, stick with a mil spec buffer tube since most aftermarket stocks are designed to fit them

Civilian companies use the term "mil-sec" as a marketing term that is over emphasized. And the general public that has never been in the military or had to use military equipment on a daily basis also put to much emphasis on things being mil spec. Military specifications are a set standard and usually the minimum specifications for acceptance and use by the US military. Plus moat military equipment is made by th lowest bidder that will pinch pennies where ever they can. Ask any of us that have served in the military how good (or bad) issued equipment actually is.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

For the OP, stick with a mil spec buffer tube since most aftermarket stocks are designed to fit them

Civilian companies use the term "mil-sec" as a marketing term that is over emphasized. And the general public that has never been in the military or had to use military equipment on a daily basis also put to much emphasis on things being mil spec. Military specifications are a set standard and usually the minimum specifications for acceptance and use by the US military. Plus moat military equipment is made by th lowest bidder that will pinch pennies where ever they can. Ask any of us that have served in the military how good (or bad) issued equipment actually is.

The specification isn't the minimum standard.

The specification IS the standard, no deviations allowed.

If it doesn't meet the specification, then it isn't DD250'd for acceptance by the government.

 

[gotboostvr]

The specification isn't the minimum standard.

The specification IS the standard, no deviations allowed.

If it doesn't meet the specification, then it isn't DD250'd for acceptance by the government.

Yes, we understand that.

It dosen't stop anyone from advertising parts that don't meet the requirements as milspec though.

 

[12Bravo20]

Yes, we understand that.

It dosen't stop anyone from advertising parts that don't meet the requirements as milspec though.

And that was the point I was trying to make. The Use of the term "mil spec" is over used by manufacturers. I'm glad that others understand it.

 

[bearcreek]

Consumer-grade "mil-spec" isn't the same as genuine US military-grade Mil-Spec.

Consumer-grade mil-spec parts are usually intended to be machined or manufactured to Mil-Spec dimension ONLY. They usually aren't manufactured using the specified manufacturing and processing standards.

Different materials are often used.

They aren't inspected with anywhere near the same quality assurance rigors to ensure the parts comply with specified dimensions. The offset buffer retainer is an example of an aftermarket part designed to compensate for commercial-grade "mil-spec" lower receivers that weren't properly machined to Mil-Spec dimensions.

Can you provide proof of this statement?

 

[mcb]

Can you provide proof of this statement?

More importantly can anyone prove it is mil-spec with in the civilian market place?

If it does not come with the paper trail it's not mil-spec. All the part inspection data, material certifications, required test results etc are all part of the mil-spec. So for a part to be mil-spec means it has to come with the paper trail to prove it. If you have no paper trail you're SOL to prove it is mil-spec.

And that is OK for us civvies. If we do our research carefully we can often end up with parts that are equal or better than mil-spec. We can even cut corners to save money where we desire too.

None of my AR's are configured anything like a mil-spec gun, most of them are not even chamber in 556. Mil-spec only really has useful meaning if you're a government buying a large batch of service weapons, or as a catchy marketing lingo.

 

[bearcreek]

More importantly can anyone prove it is mil-spec with in the civilian market place?

I'm not so sure that either question is all that important, to be honest. I was just curious if he had proof to back up his statement or if he was just guessing.

 

[mcb]

I'm not so sure that either question is all that important, to be honest. I was just curious if he had proof to back up his statement or if he was just guessing.

Agreed, its not really important but we like to argue about it.

 

[bearcreek]

Agreed, its not really important but we like to argue about it.

Forums like this wouldn't exist if that weren't the case.