AR15 forward grip question

[krolden]

I have a question regarding the forward grip on AR15 rifles (along with any derivatives). Does a forward grip give better stability than assuming a "hasty sling"? I have only shot with a forward grip once (perhaps I was doing it wrong), but only felt more secure after resting both my elbows on my body (or holding them extremely close), and even after a few rounds and fatigue from shooting off hand, I found I did better just using a hasty sling (wrapping it around my support arm) because I felt much more stable shooting off hand.

Now perhaps I am doing something wrong or does the forward grip provide other benefits? Thanks again.

 

[HorseSoldier]

A hasty sling isn't viable in combat marksmanship/close quarters combat sort of shooting.

The forward pistol grip doesn't stabilize an individual shot so much as help control recoil and drive the gun back onto target, or onto the next target, etc. For optimum use, you want both elbows rolled down, but you don't want the forward pistol grip so close it allows you to rest your non-firing hand on your body -- push the FPG out further towards the muzzle to get the most benefit.

 

[For Freedom]

How is a hasty sling not viable?

A vertical foregrip won't give you better support. It's just more comfortable for your wrist.

 

[Jeff White]

You use a forward grip from a fighting or boxer's stance. You square off to the target drop your strong side foot back a little and hold your elbows in close to your body. This stance is very stable and gives the added advantage of keeping the part of you that has the best coverage by your body armor towards the threat.

There are two schools of thought on where to put the vertical fore grip. Some people recommend that you place it back towards the magazine well and some people advocate putting it as close to the front sight as you can comfortably reach. The advocates of the forward placement say that it allows them to drive the gun better.

If you are going to shoot from a standard bladed stance you will probably be more comfortable with a standard grip on the hand guard or by using the magazine well or having the VFG in close.

Personally I just use the magwell as a VFG.

Jeff

 

[krolden]

I see, thanks for the replies gentlemen. I have tried the foward grip in a myriad of ways, close, afar, etc. And now I just take it off if its on my issued weapon and wrap my support harm around the sling and keep it that way at all times. For me, I find it much more suitable.

Never new the forward grip was meant for recoil, I assume that is if your firing it on burst. No sense having it on a civilian AR15

 

[AndyC]

You get slightly-enhanced recoil control, but the main benefit is comfort.

 

[taliv]

it's not for recoil. it's not for bullseye shooting.

 

[nalioth]

If you are going to shoot from a standard bladed stance you will probably be more comfortable with a standard grip on the hand guard or by using the magazine well or having the VFG in close.

Personally I just use the magwell as a VFG.

The problem with using your mag well as a VFG is that if you have a KB, you're liable to have hand problems (depending on the situation and weapon, this can range from a tiny boo-boo to hamburger).

 

[krolden]

"it's not for recoil. it's not for bullseye shooting."

Then it serves no purpose?

 

[TexasRifleman]

Now perhaps I am doing something wrong or does the forward grip provide other benefits? Thanks again.

Some people prefer them, some don't. There is no "right" or "wrong".

I understand very well what they are intended to accomplish and I've seen people that like them perform very well using them.

I can't stand them, and I perform just fine using other methods (using the magwell in my case) as it appears you do too.

Why worry about it?

The problem with using your mag well as a VFG is that if you have a KB, you're liable to have hand problems

If you have a kaboom of such force that your hand is damaged throught the rather thick metal of the lower receiver magwell you were going to be in trouble whether you had a VFG or not. Jeff didn't say he held the magazine itself, but the magwell. Holding the magazine itself can impact reliability in a major way.

 

[krolden]

Thanks for the input TexasRifleman, I just use a hasty sling, or take the sling off the butt and wrap it around my support arm, or hold the magwell. I just wanted to know if I was "missing something". All my rifles are pretty straight forward, I only have optics on a few of them and keep them simple for weight and simplicity. I wanted to know if there was some benefit I was missing due to ignorance. I have one vertical foregrip in storage, will probably sell it when I finish this next deployment.

 

[taliv]

Holding the magazine itself can impact reliability in a major way.

how?

Then it serves no purpose?

don't be silly. it lets you drive the gun, like jeff said.

a hasty sling is good for static shooting. but you can't very well shoot a target on your left, then a target on your right, open a window in a barricade and shoot through it, or a barrel, or any number of realistic shooting positions.

not only does it help you move the gun rapidly, you can hold a position longer, you are less likely to be uncomfortably hot when the gun warms up

using the magwell works, but not if you have a lot of weight forward of it. just a matter of leverage

 

[TexasRifleman]

how?

(holding the magazine)

Holding the mag as a VFG can change the feed angle if you have a sloppy mag fit or just well worn magazines/rifle.
I guess it could happen on new stuff too but it's happened to me with rifles I've shot a lot.

You can also pull the mag down slightly, again with a sloppy fit, such that the bolt doesn't strip the next round properly.

I've had it happen to me often enough that I no longer touch the magazine unless it's applying upward pressure. That doesn't seem to change anything but pushing it forward or backward in the magwell seems to cause problems now and then since it can change the feed angle slightly.

Not often but enough that I wouldn't want to bet my life on it.

 

[For Freedom]

Jerry Miculek puts his weak hand as far out as he can on his AR. He compared it to stabilizing a fence post. You wouldn't support the post from the bottom of it or the middle of it to the ground, you'd support it from the top.

 

[jrfoxx]

I had a VFG on my WASR for a few years when I had it set up with a T-6 stock and railed foredends and a red dot (before I got my Bushmaster M$ and put it back to the "traditional" AK setup). I found it VERY comfortable for me, especially with the grip as close to the magwell as I could get it (which isnt as close as you can do ut with an AR due to the heavily curved AK mags, and the way they have to be inserted VS the AR). Not that a semi AK has much recoil at all, but I did find I was more accurate, more comfortable, and able to get faster follow up shots with it. I am only 5'4" with somewhat short arms though, so for people with longer arms,YMMV a lot.

Didnt bother putting one on the M4, as a main goal for me was to keep it as light and handy as possible, and, as was mentioned, the magwell works just fine, and is very comfortable for me, so it just isnt needed.I have tried shootign the m4 by holding the fore end "normally" and it's fine, being that the gun is so short and light, but I was still a little better and more comfortable using the mag well.

As far as using the sling to steady, I'm sure that is probly more stable,and is liekly great for the range, plinking, hunting (depending) when you have time to slip into it,but as mentioned, I can see where it would make doing a lot of maneuvering that way (like in house clearing in Iraq) awkward, or getting the gun from a "down" position, onto target, the sling would slow you down. So, my non-expert, non-combat experianced opinion on that is that I havent seen any video of Marines using the sling on thier M4/M16's that way, and sticking to the VFG or magwell and I'll asume thats why.

Could be wrong, I was (am still actually) just a Squid that fixed electronics for aircraft weapons systems, so I have NO combat/military gun training AT ALL (they handed me an M16 with a "laser tag" type deal on it in boot camp and said to fire 10 rounds at the target prone, sitting, standing kneeling, with no instruction at all, and the scores didnt count at all, for anything, and you couldnt fail ) Guess they figured I wouldnt need a gun, since if you got past all the ships whose #1 purpose was to protect my carrier,and then our the F/A-18's, F-14's, CIWS, an M16 wasnt going to save me.

 

[Zach S]

I used to use the magwell as a VFG, but with the prices of .223 I've been shooting my RRA 9mm the most, and the magwell isnt a very good VFG with it. One downside to using the magwell is the bbl nut or delta ring, if you're shooting a lot, it gets pretty hot. Its worse if you have a free float forend that replaces the bbl nut.

I dont like the hasty sling. Cuts down mobility too much for me. Granted, the added stability is a plus, but the trade off is that its slower for multiple targets. I use a quick adjust two point sling, so I can pull the sling tighter if needed.

One reason I like the VFG is the fact that I'm cross-dominate. Because of that, I shoot longarms wrong handed. The VFG just feels more natural to me since I shoot pistols right handed. But I own two dissipator style ARs (and am planning on converting one more), so if I need to "stabilize the fencepost," I have plenty of room to do so.

 

[Grunt]

I wouldn't use the magazine well to hold the weapon. When I was in CATM school, we were firing the night burst portion of a TRQC qualification when the M-4 I was using blew up. We were using that frangible Federal crap ammo .AF.mil has been so thrilled with (excpet the CATM troops but what the hell do we know) and the investigation found that it was ahigh pressure round, probably a double charge, that blew my weapon apart in my hands. I walked away from it with a little carbon scorching on my wrist where the blast hit my wrist and a little carbon scorch mark on my trigger finger but that was it. The weapon on the other hand had the bottom of the magazine blown out, the bolt was blown back about half ways with the extractor bend out and the carrier cracked. Of course that also swelled up the upper receiver and pretty much totalled the weapon. I told the guys while I was filling out the 1168 "they say if you shoot long enough, you are going to have a weapon blow up one day...I'm just glad it was with your weapons and not mine!" Nope, no holding on to the magazine well for me!

 

[Rokman]

It sure gives you a good place to hold on when the barrel heats the handguard up.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Holding the mag or front of the magwell as a sort of FPG gives up a lot of speed and accuracy -- like someone above quoted Miculek saying, you want your stabilizing off-hand far forward to work most effectively.

How is a hasty sling not viable?

In CQC, it's simply not feasible or practical. I've seen various training techniques and theories besides the SOF-side of things that I tend to consider optimal and so far as I know, absolutely no one is teaching using a hasty sling for any application in combat marksmanship.

 

[TimboKhan]

I have shot with them, I have shot without them. I liked the ones I shot with it, but it's not something that I personally feel necessary, and thus my personal AR lives without one. I also don't care for them when the rifle is slung, but again, that's just a personal preference. Perhaps it is sort of curmudgeonly on my part, but I strongly dislike T6-style stocks on AR's, despite their overwhelming popularity. My personal AR ethos is that the rifle should be as simple and as unfettered as possible. Front Grips and stocks that prevent a solid buttstroke to the chiclets do not make for unfettered, in my opinion.

It strikes me that someone smarter than I could devise a flip down front grip that is wholly integrated into the handguards.

 

[nalioth]

but I strongly dislike T6-style stocks on AR's

I think you have it backwards, partner. The Tapco "T-6" collapsible stock is actually a copy of a stock originally made for the AR-15 (and still in use today on the M-4) . . .

 

[TimboKhan]

I think you have it backwards, partner. The Tapco "T-6" collapsible stock is actually a copy of a stock originally made for the AR-15

Well, whatever. The end result is that I don't personally care for collapsible stocks on AR's. Still, I appreciate the correction. I was under the impression that "T6" was some sort of generic descriptor for collapsible stocks.

 

[22_Shooter]

I have a VFG on my AR mounted pretty close to the mag well. I use it mainly for comfort.

 

[nalioth]

I think you have it backwards, partner. The Tapco "T-6" collapsible stock is actually a copy of a stock originally made for the AR-15

Well, whatever. The end result is that I don't personally care for collapsible stocks on AR's. Still, I appreciate the correction. I was under the impression that "T6" was some sort of generic descriptor for collapsible stocks.

I have the opposite opinion: I don't like seeing the "Crapco T-6" or any other AR-15 style stock on anything but the AR-15 platform.

My GOSH but if they keep up, they're soon gonna be installing the T-6 on NEW CARS . . .