AR15 Questions

[Alex Henning]

Hi I'm fairly new to shooting but I have some experience with firearms, AR15's in particular. I have about 800 dollars that I'm looking to use for my first AR15 build. I've talked to some friends who are gun enthusiasts and they said that palmetto state armory is a great place to buy parts if you're looking to assemble your own rifle. I just have a few questions for experienced users since I'm new and need some guidance.

1.) What sites are good to buy parts from if I plan on buying a pre assembled upper, lower, charging handle and from what I understand I'll need another part but I'm not sure what it's called..
2.) Are all AR15 parts interchangeable?
3.) How does ordering the lower work since I know that hey can technically be turned into a pistol and it has to be ordered to a certified dealer?

Thanks, Alex

 

[<*(((><]

Well you are getting in at the best time ever to assemble an AR15, the parts you are able to afford at $800 now is far superior to the parts you would have been forced to buy several years ago with the same price limit. Congrats to you.

Just in general spend the most time researching barrel, bolt and trigger; those three items have the most influence over the performance of an AR15.

1. If you are buying a pre-assembled upper from Palmetto State Armory (PSA) and your price point is $800 I would buy their premium cold hammer forged (CHF) barreled upper that's either melonited or hard chromed, and in my opinion I would go with the Magpul forend with mid-length gas in either 16 or 18" barrel. Make sure the upper comes with their premium Bolt Carrier Group (BCG). Now if you so decide to piece together an upper I would look hard at AR15Peformance for a barrel, they have great barrels as well as Bolt Carrier Groups.

2. For the most part AR15 parts are interchangeable, as the AR15 industry matures, there are specialized buffer tubes, upper receivers and BCG's, etc that will take proprietary parts, but for the vast majority all parts interchange.

3. When you purchase your lower it has to get sent to an FFL dealer, and depending on where you buy your Lower Receiver from they will either have a place to enter your zip code which will bring up various FFL dealers that they have on file that you can ship to, if not you will have to find a local FFL dealer and get paperwork from them sent over to the store you are purchasing your Lower Receiver from. How the FFL files the stripped lower receiver on your form 4473, they will file it as either "pistol", "rifle" or "other". If your are buying a stripped lower technically it should be filed with the BATFE as "other" as it can be turned into a rifle or pistol from it's stripped state. Now if you buy a complete "rifle" lower receiver you cannot turn it into a pistol after it has had a stock attached to it, and it doesn't matter if it has been fully assembled or not, just the fact that it has had a stock by definition makes it a rifle. Now if you buy a stripped lower receiver and it is filed as "other" with the BATFE you can decide at a later date which way you want to go with it either a rifle or pistol.

 

[Alex Henning]

Thank you so much for the help and information, as far as ordering the parts for the AR15 what do I need? I need an upper, lower, charging handle and is there anything else that I need in order to create a functional AR?

 

[Mn Fats]

You have experience with ar-15's but you sound somewhat new. Can I ask why you'd like to build one? I applaude you for it, but im curious what your goal is, being you sound new to the ar game.

 

[Theohazard]

How the FFL files the stripped lower receiver on your form 4473, they will file it as either "pistol", "rifle" or "other". If your are buying a stripped lower technically it should be filed with the BATFE as "other" as it can be turned into a rifle or pistol from it's stripped state.

If a dealer tries to sell a receiver as a pistol or a rifle, he's wrong.

Now if you buy a complete "rifle" lower receiver you cannot turn it into a pistol after it has had a stock attached to it, and it doesn't matter if it has been fully assembled or not, just the fact that it has had a stock by definition makes it a rifle.

No, a new lower receiver with a stock attached is still a receiver and is not a rifle; it's sold on the 4473 exactly like a stripped lower is. Remember, part of the definition of a rifle requires an action and a barrel, so a lower receiver that has buffer and stock attached but has never had an action and a barrel can't be a rifle under federal law.

Even if your new lower receiver is fully built and has a stock attached, it's still just a receiver and can't be sold as a rifle on the 4473. You could even build it into a pistol so long as you didn't put a rifle-length upper on it first and you removed the stock before putting the short barrel on.

 

[<*(((><]

Hmmm...thats news to me. Is there a way to find out how the dealer labeled it on a form 4473 after it has taken place? Because one would want to know that it was labeled as other for sure then, before doing what you propose.

I was always under the impression that once a stock has been attached you have either decided it to be a rifle or an SBR.

I don't want to muddy this thread up for the OP so I'll do my own research. But to the OP be sure how you buy your lower and what you intend to do with it, so it gets filed accordingly and I would make sure it gets filed as other on your form 4473.

Yeah, if the dealer tries to sell it as a pistol or a rifle, he's wrong.

No, a new lower receiver with a stock attached is still a receiver and is not a rifle; it's sold on the 4473 exactly like a stripped lower is. Remember, part of the definition of a rifle requires an action and a barrel, so a lower receiver that has buffer and stock attached but has never had an action and a barrel can't be a rifle under federal law.

Even if your new lower receiver is fully built and has a stock attached, it's still just a receiver and can't be sold as a rifle on the 4473. You could even build it into a pistol so long as you didn't put a rifle-length upper on it first and you removed the stock before putting the short barrel on.

 

[Everready73]

OP anything other part you are probably thinking of is the bolt carrier group (BCG). Pay attention to the description if you order from PSA as some uppers come with it. If the one you want didn't simply buy their premium one separately. For sights Magpul mbus are proven and around 60-70 for the set. You only need a rear if the upper has a front sight base. I agree with the above poster to get one of their premium line uppers with fn chrome lined barrel. Some of them are could hammer forged as well

I would also recommend two other options. One is a Colt 6920 OEM for $650 from tombstone tactical. You can get the OEM 1 or 2. One of them has a FSB for regular handguards the other has just a gas block if you want a longer rail. All you have to do is add a handguard and stock and you are good to go with a better weapon than the PSA IMO. Not saying the PSA is a bad choice either though.

The other option is to buy a BCM base upper for $439ish. Check their website or G&R tactical carries a bunch of them. You could then buy a complete lower from PSA for $139 and a premium BCG from them as well and be under your budget. Toolcraft BCG are also good and priced right. Monmouth Reloading and WcArmory are good places to find these. They come in nitride coating as well for better wear characteristics and lubricity.

Again, the PSA isn't a bad option and you can't beat their prices. Both Colt and BCM are considered higher end manufacturers and present good options as well. Whatever you choose have fun shooting it.

 

[Walkalong]

Let's talk PSA. (Many other options)

$150 lower with Magpul furniture. Have it shipped to the FFL of your choice. PSA has many on file. If they don't have the one you pick, yours can send them a copy of the FLL. They know what to do, just tell them you want to buy a lower assembly from PSA. (Or wherever you choose)

http://palmettostatearmory.com/blem-ar15-complete-moe-plus-lower-black1.html

You'll probably won't be able so notice the "blem", and you are going to scratch it using it anyway.

Then add the upper assembly of your choice. Some come with the charging handle and BCG (Bolt Carrier Group), and some don't.

If it doesn't, get the premium BCG, and at $90 is a great deal. Also a charging handle. Simple is fine, but you can get fancy, and expensive.

PTAC is their "economy" level AR parts. They work. The "Freedom" line is their intermediate level. It's pretty good stuff.

Freedom $250 complete upper assembly.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/blem...per-with-bcg-and-charing-handle-7780181b.html

Add it to the complete lower above. Pull two pins, put together, push two pins in, presto, an AR for $400 plus shipping and FFL. Add a $300 case of ammo and you're still under budget.

I have bought a complete AR before, I have put one together by buying a complete upper and a complete lower and snapping them together, and I have built one completely from scratch starting with a stripped lower. At first I was only comfortable buying a complete rifle, then I was comfortable with buying a separate upper and lower, then I was comfortable building a stripped lower up. Then an upper. The more you fool with them, the more comfortable you get with them. They are not called the Legos of the gun world for nothing.

 

[Theohazard]

Is there a way to find out how the dealer labeled it on a form 4473 after it has taken place? Because one would want to know that it was labeled as other for sure then, before doing what you propose.

I wouldn't worry about it. What the dealer puts on the 4473 doesn't define what the firearm is. A new lower receiver cannot be a rifle or pistol since it doesn't have the required parts, it's always simply a receiver. If the dealer makes a mistake that doesn't change what the firearm is.


If the DMV incorrectly registers my pickup truck as a motorcycle, that doesn't mean my pickup truck is now a motorcycle, it means someone at the DMV messed up.

I was always under the impression that once a stock has been attached you have either decided it to be a rifle or an SBR.

Here's the federal definition of "rifle":

The term “Rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firear...ion-firearms-gun-control-act-definition-rifle

A lower receiver, even one with a buffer tube and a stock, can't be a rifle since it doesn't meet that definition. It's just a receiver. The ATF has specifically addressed this:

www.typicalshooter.com/atf-putting-a-stock-on-an-ar-15-lower-does-not-make-it-a-rifle/amp/

 

[MisterNoisy]

PSA is fine - as someone mentioned, look for their CHF-barreled uppers and 'premium' BCGs (or just get a 'less BCG/CH' upper and buy a NiB BCG from AIM Surplus for $100 and a CH for $15-25). Stripped lowers are $40 all day long (Aero, Anderson, PSA, etc.) and LPKs are $20-40 depending on sales - check out Red Barn Armory for LPKs, particularly if you know you're going to be using a fancy FCG, trigger guard or pistol grip.

 

[grampajack]

OP, giving you a complete parts list would just be confusing. It all depends on what parts you get and where you get them from. For example, if you order an upper some will include the bolt carrier group (BCG) and charging handle (CH), some will not, and some will give you the option of adding them at checkout.

Some lowers will come completely stripped, some with a few proprietary parts included or already installed, some complete, and some complete save for the stock and pistol grip.

There's no best place to order parts from. Figure out what parts you want, then find out who has them for the best price. Of course you always try to order as much as possible from a single supplier to save on shipping. But no one will have every part at the best price, so you just have to shop around. Midway, Brownells, Joe Bob Outfitters, Cheaper Than Dirt, etc. all have pretty large selections. Places like DTI and PSA are one stop shop websites, but you're pretty much limited to their own brand, which is fine if that's what you're wanting.

Step one is figuring out exactly what you want to do with the rifle. Do you want to hunt with it? Or just shoot stuff around the farm for the fun of it? Pest control, home defense, competition, etc.?

 

[DoubleMag]

Just noticed, A H (Original Poster) is brand new here to the forums!

WELCOME TO THR.org browse to your heart's content

 

[redneck2]

Wow. New guy comes here asking a simple question. What time is it? He gets told how to build a watch.

Anyway, if you haven't, read the sticky at the top of the rifle forum "which AR parts did you chose and why?" Might give you some ideas.

If you can do basic mechanical stuff (change a tire, fix a light switch) you can build an AR if you'd like. The upper is a challenge to hold the receiver while tightening the barrel nut.

You'd said you want to buy a complete upper and lower. There are many good brands available now. The marketplace has pretty much weeded out poor quality. Asking opinions is akin to asking someone which car to buy. It's just one person's opinion. I have four, all from different places. My last one was a complete upper and stripped lower from PSA.

 

[Tirod]

There are dozens of websites selling parts. Here is an AR specific search engine that lists many - but not all: http://arpartsfinder.com/

PSA is just one of the lower price leaders but when sales of a highly attractive price are advertised they can get behind. Since it's a small operation shipping could then suffer - which some take great exception to. This can and does happen to them all, right now the market is pretty much overstocked on commodity parts and things move along.

As for what the rifle might be used for, it helps to narrow your purpose: Exactly what range and target is intended for this gun? A stockless AR pistol is meant for close range self defense, a stocked 20" rifle will have much more reach for hunting and precision target shooting. This should illustrate why setting the range in numbers is important, as barrel length does affect speed and trajectory, what projectiles are optimal, and exactly the effect needed at the longest terminal striking point. Paper is quite a different target than deer.

With range and target in hand, you pick the correct caliber/cartridge (there are a few more than 5.56 now,) which then has it's optimal barrel length. That sets the gas port location - rifle, mid, carbine - and it also helps determine which muzzle device and what kind of handguard or free float might contribute. It's all about the barrel - you get what you pay for. A nitrided 6.8 SPC barrel in "recon" profile will shoot more rounds more accurately, at least in terms of internet lore, than a bare unchromed 10.5" pistol barrel which gets triple the round count and is expected to "burn out" from high rates of fire.

Range and target. It makes a difference.

Options after that barrel is sorted out then go to the receiver, a flat top is preferred for the ease of mounting an optic. One related issue is that it must be mounted to the upper not a rail on the handguard. Sling and hand pressure can and will push and optic around causing deviations - and it will affect a front site mounted on a rail, too. For long distance precision shooting it is a fail, closer range "minute of target" won't be as affected.

Goes to some building AR's for style points aside from any common sense about firearms use.

After that, stock, if any, grip, and not least, trigger. Note those fall far down the list of things that actually affect the intended use and necessary level of accuracy. If a run of the mill 2MOA barrel is being used, the bonus of a precision target trigger with bench use 2 pound pull is wasted money. Yet you will hear the internet praise some vendors exclusively regardless of the application. Goes to the range and target again. Certain parts may be wonderful for some, but they are unjustified for uses beyond their niche role. That AR pistol might be better off with a binary trigger, it would be equally ludicrous to recommend it for a 600m precision shooter.

Some folks get all wrapped up in the social heirarchy of owning certain Brands regardless of cost or contribution. And $800 budget removes most of that, but buyer beware, without a specific range and target things can go astray.

As for the lower, no, the FFL has no discretionary authority to determine what the official status of a lower is. None whatsoever. That was fixed when the manufacturer shipped it from their facility. Lowers are usually about 10% of a project cost, and if someone were to desire changing one up it's best left to a lot of further study - a new lower is a cheaper alternative. Most AR's are built to a purpose, range and target, and few indulge in hot swapping parts at a range to shoot it for a completely different one. It's a small and arcane area of use.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Stop!!! Do not act upon anything posted in this thread. Push all thoughts of an AR15 from your mind. They are like a bag of chips, once you start, you can't stop.
Building an AR will only lead to an uncontrollable desire to build more. Please!! I beg you to back away while you can.
I know this to be true. I do not wish you to suffer as I do.


All kidding aside. ARs are easy and fun to build. As you can see, I have more fun then most.
Lots of good info from other members.
You can spend just over $400 on a budget build.
Or you can spend $700 to $900 and build a rifle equivalent to what would cost you $1200 to $1600 at a gun shop.
Here is the problem with a budget build. If you plan to upgrade right after building it, you will be wasting money(the cost of the parts you take off) unless you can sale the parts you replaced. The trouble is that most people already have those cheaper parts.
The problem with doing an upper end build. There are a lot of upgrades that people spend money on that are not needed, but get them because it's the best thing or the cool thing to have.
So my advise would be to figure out what you will be using the rifle for and build a rifle that fits your needs.
PSA has great deals all the time and others have covered the different models they offer. There shipping will kill you so, watch for their sales with free shipping.
Primary Arms is a good place to order from also.
Others have pointed out that Blems are good deals. I agree unless your building a safe queen. I just saved $40 on a lower because it was a Blem.
Just make sure that you have fun with your build.

 

[Varminterror]

How the FFL files the stripped lower receiver on your form 4473, they will file it as either "pistol", "rifle" or "other". If your are buying a stripped lower technically it should be filed with the BATFE as "other" as it can be turned into a rifle or pistol from it's stripped state

Not just "technically." Legally, a stripped lower MUST be listed as an "other" on the 4473. They get brought into inventory on record as a receiver, so it has to leave as a receiver, unless the FFL builds it into a pistol or rifle themselves and changes it in the log prior to the sale.

FFL holders are people too, and people can make mistakes, or even be poorly informed, but that's the law of it - a stripped lower goes down as "Other" on the FTR.

 

[<*(((><]

@GunnyUSMC

Your disease has metastasized quite a bit over the years hasn't it?

How do you like your PCC on the far left of the picture what are it's details? How has it ran for you?

I have a PSA Glock Lower that I'm putting together in 9mm and was curious how reliable it has been for you.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

The 9mm carbine in that pic is a good example of what I posted about. It started out as a Joe Bob Outfitter's stripped Spartan lower that I picked up for $120 and got a free t-shirt to boot. The upper was a PSA complete upper with a slick side upper. I wanted a dust cover so I replaced the upper with an Anderson and put a plug in the forward assist hole. That cost me an extra $65. I then saw the Areo upped without the forward assist. That cost me another $100.
Recoil was rough with a standard buffer so I tried a Spike's H3 buffer, still wasn't happy with the way it ran. Ended up with a Rock River 9mm buffer and it runs smooth with all loads now. I've tried a few different handguards too.
If I would have taken a little more time, I could have saved some money.
Never hurts to do your homework before building.

 

[Nature Boy]

you guys are making me want to build a 9mm AR.

Stop it!

 

[grampajack]

Stop!!! Do not act upon anything posted in this thread. Push all thoughts of an AR15 from your mind. They are like a bag of chips, once you start, you can't stop.
Building an AR will only lead to an uncontrollable desire to build more. Please!! I beg you to back away while you can.
I know this to be true. I do not wish you to suffer as I do.
View attachment 235744

All kidding aside. ARs are easy and fun to build. As you can see, I have more fun then most.
Lots of good info from other members.
You can spend just over $400 on a budget build.
Or you can spend $700 to $900 and build a rifle equivalent to what would cost you $1200 to $1600 at a gun shop.
Here is the problem with a budget build. If you plan to upgrade right after building it, you will be wasting money(the cost of the parts you take off) unless you can sale the parts you replaced. The trouble is that most people already have those cheaper parts.
The problem with doing an upper end build. There are a lot of upgrades that people spend money on that are not needed, but get them because it's the best thing or the cool thing to have.
So my advise would be to figure out what you will be using the rifle for and build a rifle that fits your needs.
PSA has great deals all the time and others have covered the different models they offer. There shipping will kill you so, watch for their sales with free shipping.
Primary Arms is a good place to order from also.
Others have pointed out that Blems are good deals. I agree unless your building a safe queen. I just saved $40 on a lower because it was a Blem.
Just make sure that you have fun with your build.

Not everyone who tries it gets addicted. I can stop anytime I want to...

On an unrelated matter, does anyone have some spare change...you know...for the bus.

 

[Walkalong]

you guys are making me want to build a 9mm AR.

You won't regret it.

Hopefully we have given the OP some answers he can use. Maybe he'll jump back in and help us out.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

To the OP.
I have a few post on some of the AR I have built. There are other members that have posted about their builds also. It would be a good idea to read up on those post to see what was used on those builds and if there were any problems.

 

[il.bill]

Alex - lots of very good advice above, and welcome to THR.

You can spend days looking up AR15 information using the google. Spend some time web browsing (and searching the THR archives) and you will learn a lot.

Do not fret over things too much. Figure out your actual intended purpose and shop accordingly. You almost cannot go wrong starting off with any name brand 'entry level' rifle like a S&W M&P15 Sport II or a Ruger AR556, or step up to the Colt LE6920-OEM (if you want to install your own furniture). Prices have come way down on just about all the under $1,000 AR15s.

Going with PSA and taking advantage of two of their daily specials can get you a complete lower and a complete upper with Bolt Carrier Group and Charging Handle at very good prices - just two pins and you have 'your AR15' assembled.

Take your 'entry level' AR15 out and shoot it to get some experience and have some fun.. I believe it is almost a given that it will NOT be your only one. From there, you can shop and assemble your custom spec rifle to your heart's content. The first one will always still be nice to have around. I had never handled an AR15 before I got my 01FFL and after selling eight or ten S&W M&P15s I thought I should buy one myself. My goodness - three shots into the first magazine and I was hooked. I immediately saw and felt 'what it was all about'. I 'came to' the NEXT DAY late Sunday morning and realized I had just spent nearly 3 1/2 hours shopping online for the components to build my own (next) AR15! Be careful - they are addictive ...

 

[ponchh]

Hi I'm fairly new toabout youthooting but I have some experience with firearms, AR15's in particular. I have about 800 dollars that I'm looking to use for my first AR15 build. I've talked to some friends who are gun enthusiasts and they said that palmetto state armory is a great place to buy parts if you're looking to assemble your own rifle. I just have a few questions for experienced users since I'm new and need some guidance.

1.) What sites are good to buy parts from if I plan on buying a pre assembled upper, lower, charging handle and from what I understand I'll need another part but I'm not sure what it's called..
2.) Are all AR15 parts interchangeable?
3.) How does ordering the lower work since I know that hey can technically be turned into a pistol and it has to be ordered to a certified dealer?

Thanks, Alex

If you build your own from from parts you picked out you will care more about that rifle than anything you could ever buy if you were to buy complete upper and lower.
My go to spots are Midway & Redbarn. Redbarn has the only true custom lower parts kit that I know of. Anything they don't have Brownell's does.
I know to build one you will need some special tools, but you might as well buy them now because most people are changing out a few hundred in parts within six months. That's the nature of the beast. Build or buy you will be taking part's off and puttin em back on. Before you buy any rifle part get this video.
BUILDING YOUR AR15 FROM SCRATCH
by BY JIM VANMIDDLESWORTH
not sure about spelling but it's close.
He doesn't try to stress how smart he is and your not. He goes step by step by little step how to work on one of these rifles. If you want to learn this video will teach you.
If you want to build rather than buy upper and lower I can give you a parts list for a good $800 or so gun.

 

[rskent]

Not just "technically." Legally, a stripped lower MUST be listed as an "other" on the 4473. They get brought into inventory on record as a receiver, so it has to leave as a receiver, unless the FFL builds it into a pistol or rifle themselves and changes it in the log prior to the sale.

What if the receiver says “pistol” on it?