Ar15 trigger upgrade, geissele or what?

[z7]

Factory government trigger is good enough for hunting and self defense. What some aftermarket makers install might not come up to that standard. . . . .Be careful what you ask for. Nothing wrong with getting a crisp, short pull but a field or tactical use gun should have a 6 - six - pound trigger with some creep to stack so you know you are pulling it. It's not position target shooting, and the few extra ounces aren't going to make any effective difference putting a bullet in the kill zone.

I agree with your insight, I am not going for the SSA-E because of this. a 3.5lb trigger for a DMR gun is not what I am looking for.

My Daniel Defense rifle is under recall for a disconnector issue, evidently some of them decided to burst fire sometimes. I don't like the trigger that came with it. I am used to shooting government spec M4/M16 triggers. the trigger in my DD rifle is the second worst trigger I have ever used, second to my Ruger 10/22 trigger. it is heavy, gritty, and breaks inconsistently compared to the other M4 and M16 rifles I have used.

 

[LiveLife]

+1 to Tirod's post.

According to the Geissele video on post #19, ALG QMS trigger is same as Mil-Spec Colt triggers polished for cleaner snap with about 6 lbs of trigger pull. ACT is QMS trigger plated with nickel boron/nickel teflon for resistance and smoother snap.

 

[rabid wombat]

Factory government trigger is good enough for hunting and self defense. What some aftermarket makers install might not come up to that standard.

A "good" trigger is commonly believed to be what people use for long distance position shooting, and the first thing they think is needed is a light pull. Second is a very short pull. Both are not recommended for a tactical or field trigger, they are exactly the opposite of what is safe traveling over rough ground, or under duress. The military world wide has specified a 6 pound trigger for over one hundred years because of it, and a little creep isn't a trigger killer when you are hunting or being opposed by an intruder. It's NOT a question of taking up slack while the sights slowing work back and forth past the target - things are usually a lot closer and it's sight on target and squeeze it off within the second.

Completely different kind of shooting, but in the market and American experience, long distance target triggers dominate because of oneupmanship. We've had plenty of posters over the years explain how their hunting and carry guns are tuned to light target trigger weights with almost no travel - and yet when the Remington trigger debacle is discussed, no one is willing to explain in detail what trigger weight and travel they adjusted their's to. It's always "Blame Remington."

Be careful what you ask for. Nothing wrong with getting a crisp, short pull but a field or tactical use gun should have a 6 - six - pound trigger with some creep to stack so you know you are pulling it. It's not position target shooting, and the few extra ounces aren't going to make any effective difference putting a bullet in the kill zone.

A 9 ring hit vs 8 ring hit makes no difference stopping an intruder at 21 feet. You want a hit, not a light trigger subject to going off long before you get the sights on them.

This is the very reason I have different triggers. I have the SSA-E down to the ALG ACT. Purpose, Purpose, Purpose! I prefer the Giessele product, and have both the SSA-E and ACT's installed (I should consider one of their match triggers...). I have the RR NM due to that it came with the rifles. I bought the Larue due to the price point and reputation (not installed yet).

To hijack the thread, 10-22's came up. One name - Kidd, and never look back! http://www.coolguyguns.com/TRIGGERS_c_7.html

 

[someguy2800]

You can make your gun unsafe if you don't know what your doing, but I recently did this and the results are really nice along with some polishing of the sear surfaces and bending the trigger spring a bit.

http://www.junkyardgenius.com/firearms/ar-15/ar08.html

 

[salt&battery]

Factory government trigger is good enough for hunting and self defense. What some aftermarket makers install might not come up to that standard.

A "good" trigger is commonly believed to be what people use for long distance position shooting, and the first thing they think is needed is a light pull. Second is a very short pull. Both are not recommended for a tactical or field trigger, they are exactly the opposite of what is safe traveling over rough ground, or under duress. The military world wide has specified a 6 pound trigger for over one hundred years because of it, and a little creep isn't a trigger killer when you are hunting or being opposed by an intruder. It's NOT a question of taking up slack while the sights slowing work back and forth past the target - things are usually a lot closer and it's sight on target and squeeze it off within the second.

Completely different kind of shooting, but in the market and American experience, long distance target triggers dominate because of oneupmanship. We've had plenty of posters over the years explain how their hunting and carry guns are tuned to light target trigger weights with almost no travel - and yet when the Remington trigger debacle is discussed, no one is willing to explain in detail what trigger weight and travel they adjusted their's to. It's always "Blame Remington."

Be careful what you ask for. Nothing wrong with getting a crisp, short pull but a field or tactical use gun should have a 6 - six - pound trigger with some creep to stack so you know you are pulling it. It's not position target shooting, and the few extra ounces aren't going to make any effective difference putting a bullet in the kill zone.

A 9 ring hit vs 8 ring hit makes no difference stopping an intruder at 21 feet. You want a hit, not a light trigger subject to going off long before you get the sights on them.

you are right a lot of guys want target triggers in every weapon. I have no problem with the standard AR trigger at all. just wish it was more of a two stage which to me is the best and safest for everything besides maybe a rifle for strictly target

 

[M1key]

I see a few options along the ACT variety like PSA, BCM, etc. that work well and are cheaper or as cheap. I have a variety of all types including Colt, JP, RRA, Bushmaster, LaRue as well as the ACT-type. Not any Geisseles to date. I can't really decide which I prefer but admit I feel more comfortable with the military type. Purpose driven is the correct idea, IMO.

M

 

[Double Naught Spy]

What is or is not "good enough" is determined by the particular user for his/her needs. What you like/want/need may not be what he likes/wants/needs or what I like/want/need.

I like my Geissles but have a couple factory triggers that are pretty outstanding as well.

 

[earplug]

A two stage trigger is a nice thing.

 

[AndyP]

I like two stage triggers myself. I have SSA-E, G2, and Rock River varmint triggers on my rifles. I like the SSA-E and RR the best, both are nice.
I think 2 stage is very safe, one has to conscientiously take up the slack of the first stage before the gun is ready to fire. In a high adrenaline event, I'm not sure the 2,3 pound difference between a light single stage and a heavy one would even be felt.

 

[salt&battery]

What is or is not "good enough" is determined by the particular user for his/her needs. What you like/want/need may not be what he likes/wants/needs or what I like/want/need.

I like my Geissles but have a couple factory triggers that are pretty outstanding as well.

you are right there are many that like to shoot heroin with dirty needles pop pain pill like M&M's drink a bottle of hard booze a day

 

[salt&battery]

I like two stage triggers myself. I have SSA-E, G2, and Rock River varmint triggers on my rifles. I like the SSA-E and RR the best, both are nice.
I think 2 stage is very safe, one has to conscientiously take up the slack of the first stage before the gun is ready to fire. In a high adrenaline event, I'm not sure the 2,3 pound difference between a light single stage and a heavy one would even be felt.

this is exactly how I look at 2 stage triggers in fact for me the best trigger is standard M1A trigger. I have done excellent work with it. I have German match rifles and never liked hair trigger with no first stage but for offhand it might be needed. I have a ruger target rifle with a beautiful 2 stage trigger. not shooting the guy in front of you is why most military guns had 2 stage triggers. I think the AR should have that trigger as standard

 

[RussellC]

I like two stage triggers myself. I have SSA-E, G2, and Rock River varmint triggers on my rifles. I like the SSA-E and RR the best, both are nice.
I think 2 stage is very safe, one has to conscientiously take up the slack of the first stage before the gun is ready to fire. In a high adrenaline event, I'm not sure the 2,3 pound difference between a light single stage and a heavy one would even be felt.

Exactly.

Russellc

 

[z7]

Put the geissele g2s into the rifle yesterday, shot about 100 rds today, it is definitely an upgrade,

 

[Dentite]

Factory government trigger is good enough for hunting and self defense...

I agree with you on self defense. I disagree on hunting. When you are used to good triggers on bolt action rifles, going to a factory milspec AR trigger feels like the safety is still on. I bought a Colt 6920 thinking it would make a decent predator rifle some years back. First time I took it out to work up a handload I couldn't get over how heavy the trigger was. Very distracting and difficult to be accurate with it. I eventually built a dedicated predator rifle just the way I wanted in 6.5 Grendel and used a Geissele SSA-E trigger and have been very happy with it over the years. I've since used the SSA-E trigger in more of my builds, but my purposes are hunting or for fun, not serious home defense.

So I think the answer is what do you want to do with it? My hunting friends and I struggle with a mil-spec trigger for hunting. I can definitely recommend the SSA-E for hunting but I agree that a mil-spec is fine (and maybe better) for home defense.

Just my experience.

 

[salt&battery]

I agree with you on self defense. I disagree on hunting. When you are used to good triggers on bolt action rifles, going to a factory milspec AR trigger feels like the safety is still on. I bought a Colt 6920 thinking it would make a decent predator rifle some years back. First time I took it out to work up a handload I couldn't get over how heavy the trigger was. Very distracting and difficult to be accurate with it. I eventually built a dedicated predator rifle just the way I wanted in 6.5 Grendel and used a Geissele SSA-E trigger and have been very happy with it over the years. I've since used the SSA-E trigger in more of my builds, but my purposes are hunting or for fun, not serious home defense.

So I think the answer is what do you want to do with it? My hunting friends and I struggle with a mil-spec trigger for hunting. I can definitely recommend the SSA-E for hunting but I agree that a mil-spec is fine (and maybe better) for home defense.

Just my experience.

no doubt when you get used to a good trigger it is hard to go back but remember when they shot the 45/70 at 1000-1800 yds the trigger pull was 8lbs with an 11/2 hammer fall and the man made hits with open sights with that trigger. I remember in the early 90's when no one bought savage rifles I met an old guy at a gun show and he told me the way the floating bolt mates to the receiver so me and my friends bought heavy barrels. they had triggers where you needed a come along to set off. got used to the trigger and shot tiny groups never really doing any better with any other rifles. a lot of shooting is mental so if you believe in your target trigger you will shoot good with it

 

[AABEN]

I have put straight pull Timney 3lb 31/2lb and Velocity 3lb in my AR,S I do not care for a 2 stage trigger some people do and that is good to each is to his own