AR15 - why so expensive?

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ak47nevada

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From what I've read about the reliability of the Weapon System, $800 average for a no-ban M4/A2 is very expensive.

That's just over the price of 3 WASR AK47s.

AR15 magazines run $20 a pop. From what I've read AR15's need USGI mags so the $15 ones are out of the question.

So for a SHTF rifle we're talking

$850 AR15 out the door.
$200 - 10 30rd mags
$200 - 1000rds GreenTip AP

$1250! :what:

For that price I can get 3 WASRs, 3 krebs custom peep sights, creep trigger done by armorer and some mags for $6.95 a pop.

If my logic is faulty or I'm thinking down the wrong paths could somebody knock me on the head and explain why I'd go for the AR15? It seems the AK47 weapon system is the best bang for the buck. But then again, is the accuracy @ 200 yards so bad that the cost of the accurate AR15 is worth it?

Thanks! BTW. TheHighRoad rocks. :evil:
 
If you remove the accuracy factor, I can't see why the AR is so expensive either. I'm building one, so I'll build mine, including specialty tools for about $600 (I got some good deals such as an upper receiver for $35). It's a very simple rifle internally.

While I'm not a big EBR fan, once I found out I can build one from parts and only order the lower receiver through an FFL, I got interested. After I finish it (I need a barrel), I want to get a big bore upper half. IMO, that's the beauty of the AR, once you have the lower, you have a bunch of different options for the upper half. You can go from 22lr to 50BMG if you want.

I want a 300 Whisper (but then I need a suppresser to make it complete :scrutiny: ) or 50 Beowulf upper for mine.

Chris
 
The XCR hasn't been proven in field yet and who knows what the availablility will actually be and spare parts, etc.
 
If you are young enough, sooner or later you'll have both.

I've got SAR -1, A Bushy short barrell, a full sized pre-ban Colt.

It took some doing, but I've got them.

If you are currently on a budget, buy one SAR this year, and get the Bushy next year.

Over time, just buy quality, it always is cheaper in the long run.

I've bought post ban U.S. Milspec mags M-16 mags for $15, I'll get a few more.
 
If you look around you can build a decent AR for about $700, they do require USGI mags, but I've seen them for $15.99 on-line, as far as ammo, I plink with Wolf ($107 per 1000rds 62gr FMJ, delivered ) from Sportsmans Guide.

I do keep the good stuff for Zombies and Blue Helmets though. :evil:

Not as cheap as the AK. But a little cheaper.
 
They command the prices they do becuase people will pay that so they can look cool, brag about thier particular model, "be tactical", and just put lots of rounds downrange in a hurry.

Why do they cost so much? Because people will pay the prices - period.
 
You're comparing apples to oranges.

First, you're looking at Romanian imports and Cold War leftover mags compared to current US manufacture. Compare say a no-frills Bushy AR and a Krebs AK, and the price difference narrows drastically.

Further, remember the East Block of the Cold War era followed the mantra of "quantity has a quality all of its own." Hence, the AK design is designed to be able to stamped out cheap in a hurry for third world peasant conscript armies, while the AR design was designed to be milled out of aluminum forgings and put together for highly trained professional soldiers.

The wonder is not that the AK is all-fired great, the wonder is that something made so cheaply can still run, much less run well. (And that it does, certainly!) Thus, by focusing on "bang for the buck" you're pretty much taking the East Block perspective.

Still, remember that most every time East ran up against West resulted in a victory for the good guys (southeast asia being the one very notable exception) -- I'd say that history has proven the "tech-n-training,training,training" model to be superior on the field. Now granted a lot of that has to do with air power, superior targeting and stealth tech, etc etc etc... but I'd argue it trickles down to rifles to.

If you've got enough people to throw at the problem, the quantity-over-quality approach is fine. Personally, since I've only got one me, I don't like that answer so much. :p (though I guess that means one of these days I should take my own advice and get my lazy pink butt over to front site or somesuch. :uhoh: )

Play with both systems, come to your own conclusions.
 
The few who buy the AR to look cool as you put it, are by far the minority and mostly immature.

As far as putting rounds down range fast, any semi will do that.
Those that shoot as a skill do not dump a 30 rounder in seconds as they know it heats up the barrel and reduces accuracy.

I've used the british mags, GI mags, thermold, and orlite mags without a failure in any of the AR's I have. I never paid more than 12 bucks for a new mag.

The other thing is whether you just want to plink and hit the broad side of a barn or you really want to improve your shooting ability by grouping shots at long distances.

Trying to justify the cost of something is a waste of time. It is what it is.

And you will always have the AR haters club.
 
One reason ARs ain't cheap -- aside from supply & demand -- is that the upper and lower receivers are forged out of blocks of aluminum. That's an expensive way to make guns. SARs, WASRs, and other AKM derivatives have receivers made from steel stampings, which is considerably cheaper.

Note that an AK with a milled receiver is going to set you back around $600 or more, which is approaching AR-15 pricing.
 
Just to add my $.02, you can build a very nice AR for $600-700. $100 will get you a quality forged lower reciever - $50 will add a RRA parts kits. Another $50 or so will get you either a new A2 stock or a used telestock. Then you just need an upper reciever you can get a nice complete RRA upper for $400, or for an extra $100 you can get a 4150 steel, chrome lined, T numbered M4 upper from CMMG inc.

The only special tool needed would be a wrench for the telestock if you go that route - otherwise a hammer and a screwdriver out of your average joes tool box will handle the assembly.

USGI mags can be found for less then $20 each, and there is plenty of ammo out there that is cheaper then $200/1000 and will work well for you.

So the WASR is still going to be cheaper, but the AR is going to be more accurate, more ergonomic, and more flexible. With an AR you can use a .22lr kit for cheap plinking one day, take it to a three gun match for some .223 action shooting the next, do some long range target practice the day after, and then go deer hunting the next (either with .223 or with a large caliber upper like a .458 socom or .50 beawulf etc). And it can easily accept any optic/accesory you heart desires for any of these roles. You are honestly getting a better made gun (US forged parts vs. stamped Romanian surplus), that is capable of doing a lot more things.

And ARs are very reliable guns as long as you use decent ammo and decent mags. In the 2000 rounds of XM193/Fed AE223/Wolf Poly I've put through my CMMG/Bushy M4 so far I've had one failure as a result of a bent feed lip (on a steel Brit mag no less).

So IMO the AR was worth the extra money for me. That doesn't mean that I'm not going to get myself an AK to go with it though. :D
 
The few who buy the AR to look cool as you put it, are by far the minority and mostly immature.
As far as putting rounds down range fast, any semi will do that.
Those that shoot as a skill do not dump a 30 rounder in seconds as they know it heats up the barrel and reduces accuracy.
Click to expand...

These are the ones I see and hear about mostly. I do understand there are the erious shooters out there with the understanding of precise shooting. Just seems it's the majority that fit into my categories of "braggers and spray & pray" shooters. I'm not an AR hater. Just annoyed at some of those with them.

Also, like you said,
Trying to justify the cost of something is a waste of time. It is what it is.
Click to expand...
couldn't be said better. :cool:
After all, you get what you pay for.
 
OK, let's cut through the crap.

At this point of writing,

the stalwart defenders of freedom are using the AR-15/M16 design.

At this point in writing,

the [Racist term removed by moderator], (AKA "the bad guys")

are using some variant of the Kalishnikov.

(a Russian gentleman who has recently expanded his expertise into vodka brand imaging.)

Okay. The answer is simple. Buy and learn how to use BOTH designs.

Then you got "all of it" covered.

Next question?
 
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KW and Kaylee thanks for those posts (and all the rest of ya).

Mabye I'll give the AR another look. The main problem is I'm terribly worried that if I ever have an AR in my hands when I REALLY need it it's going to malfunction in my hands.

Looks like I'll have to spend about $1000 to see if they will be reliable... Or wait for that XCR :eek:
 
"Over time, just buy quality, it always is cheaper in the long run."
-Texian Pistolero

I totally agree. I've been thinking of 3 WASRs but mabye I'll wait. I remember the last time I bought the Entreprise FAL instead of the DSA because I couldn't wait two weeks :banghead:
 
KW has it right.

Eagle firearms has great AR complete lowers for $191.

You can get a good upper from Model 1 and get out for under $550. Get a great RRA upper and you're out for under $700. I built a service rifle with 1/4 MOA sights and hooded aperature and floated 1:7 barrel for under$1000 (White Oak Armamment). It holds 1/2 MOA with handloads. If you pay over $1000 for an AR you are being ripped off. Period.
 
Do you really think an AR15 is expensive??

I don't consider a rifle set up the way you want it and priced between $800.00 and $1500.00 to be expensive.

This is especially true when a pick-up truck set up the way a customer wants it runs $35,000 to $55,000 now.
 
At this point in writing, the **********, (AKA "the bad guys") are using some variant of the Kalishnikov.
Click to expand...
The Iraqi National Guard are also the Good Guys and use the AK as well. Last I checked there were almost as many ING soldiers on active duty in Iraq as there are US/Coalition forces. In fact there may be more ING soldiers than Coalition now.

moderator note: The only edit to this post was in the quote
 
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These are the ones I see and hear about mostly. I do understand there are the erious shooters out there with the understanding of precise shooting. Just seems it's the majority that fit into my categories of "braggers and spray & pray" shooters. I'm not an AR hater. Just annoyed at some of those with them.
Click to expand...
Well I guess your limited experience is plenty qualified to stereotype. BTW, please tell us what type of firearms you own so we can describe the "typical" owners of these guns. :rolleyes:
 
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