Are all pistols calibers derived from the 9mm deficiancy?

[dom1104]

I had a funny thought.

Are all modern autoloading pistol calibers derived from a perceived or real deficiancy in the 9mm?

I mean if the 9mm were enough, nobody would need or want a .40, .357 sig, 10mm etc.

If the 9mm were ENOUGH, there wouldnt be a market for any other caliber really. It would be, the vundercartridge. Small, hi cap, light, can be put in many different sized guns, etc.

Since most autoloaders are geared towards self defense rather than hunting. And unlike rifles there is very little "range" consideration. Its all about "Stopping Power" or lack of the same.

It was an interesting thought.

 

[Kor]

deleted

 

[The Bushmaster]

Mmmmuuummppphh...! I'm suprised that I read the whole thing.

Besides...You DID forget the "favored" .45 ACP and all its clones [cheap and expensive]...

Kor...Why did you do that. I liked the sign on the telephone pole...

 

[PT1911]

Last I checked the 9mm was available in a HUGE variety of handguns and carbines ranging from the big and heavy all steel CZ 75s and the like to the small and light kel tecs, taurus offerings, and many others. Humans always want the bigger, faster, stronger whatever... a VW beetle will get you point a to point b just as well as any classic muscle car or new tuner. Hell, a VW with a bit of work will go anywhere a jacked up Ford/Chevy/Toyota truck will and some places that they wont... why get anything other than a VW beetle?... power, speed, and lets not forget... SEXY!!!

People want larger than a 9mm because there are things available larger than a 9mm. If there were widely available handgun cartridges out there with more "stopping power" than a 45acp or 10mm, people would say they were useless too.

Personally I own 4 9mms and 2 45s and would not hesitate to use any of them in a self defense situation. I seriously doubt a BG would know the difference in a well placed 9mm hp and a well placed 45 hp. Honestly, the only time it makes much difference is in the badly placed shots where a 45 acp MAY cause them more of a problem (initially) than a 9mm in the same place.

A 9mm is far from deficient.

Every cartridge is a compromise... Power v recoil... power v capacity.. in the end, it depends on the mood I am in as to which I feel like going with.

 

[aka108]

All calibers are developed because someone wanted to overcome a deficiency in another one. Funny though, the old cartridges seem to stick around and some of the new superdupers tend to have short lives.

 

[dom1104]

Yeah I didnt include the .45 since I think it was devoloped at the same time period as the 9mm.


It just occored to me, that I have no desire to get any other caliber, because in my mind 9mm is enough.

I then started thinking that maybe that is the line of thought that decides the purchase of "other" calibers.

"Well I would get it in 9mm but I will get it in .40 instead because 9mm may not be enough, so I will deal with higher cost and lesser capacity."

Because other than increased stopping power the other rounds dont offer anything.... new.

Other than possibly the 5.7. as far as capacity.

 

[Jim Watson]

I always thought the 9mm was developed because of a perceived deficiency in the 7.65mm.

 

[918v]

I just shot myself in the head with a 9mm. I'm still holding a plate full of food in my left hand and typing with my right. Clearly, the round is deficient.

 

[Youngster]

I think some of the newer defensive pistol calibers have come about largely as a result of the *underloading* of the 9x19, at least in the American market. 9mm +P should be considered standard pressure in the caliber IMO.

 

[MikePGS]

The reason they keep developing cartridges is because theres no ethical way to reliably test what round is most efficient at stopping someone immediately, so it's all speculation and since a bigger caliber seems like it should work better than a smaller one some people automatically assume they would be more efficient at this particular task.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I can think of one cartridge - more properly, a particular loading of the cartridge - that was developed in response to a perceived "deficiency" of the 9mm. This was the downloaded 10mm Auto adopted by the FBI after the 1986 shootout with the armed robbers in Miami. It later developed into the .40 S&W.

 

[jdc1244]

The only "deficiency" is some manufactures’ lack of a cartridge named after them, such as Sig and Glock. These ‘designer cartridges’ have more to do with marketing and less to do with performance.

 

[MCgunner]

The .30-30 is "enough" and look how many deer calibers there are and deer hunters around the country argue that their .250-3000 is better than Joe's .25-06 yadda, yadda.

Marketing....gun makers need a new mouse trap occasionally. There are those calibers, .45ACP developed by DOD to replace the pathetic .38 long colt, .40S&W developed from the downloaded FBI 10 developed after the perceived need for more caliber after the FBI Miami shoot out (never mind the pathetic tactics), etc that are developed by agencies, but such as the .357Sig is pure marketing.

 

[huntsman]

If the 9mm were ENOUGH, there wouldnt be a market for any other caliber really.

That may be the case if gun guys were happy with one gun and one cartridge, but they're not so other cartridges mean sales and that's what manufacturers do.

 

[MCgunner]

Yeah, life with one caliber would be damned boring.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Well different army's wanted different things. We used the .38 long Colt until it was decided that wasn't powerful enough.

The German military wanted the 9mm, so thats what they got.

Whats interesting is that most "modern" pistol rounds have been around 100+ years. The new stuff like oh .45 GAP never seems to catch on. Or they see very limited use like the .357 Sig.

 

[HisSoldier]

The 9 MM is the be all and end all of pistol caliber design, there is no need for any other. Like glock, it's perfect.

 

[Manco]

Whats interesting is that most "modern" pistol rounds have been around 100+ years. The new stuff like oh .45 GAP never seems to catch on. Or they see very limited use like the .357 Sig.

Well, it's difficult to overcome the "momentum" that the old calibers have, since so many people have used them for such a long time. While the same principle applied to them back when they were created, calibers such as 9x19mm and .45 ACP managed to establish themselves and eventually dominate because of the fact that they were compact for their levels of power, having been designed to use then-new smokeless powder, and met the requirements of major militaries around the world at the time. Success also depends so much on timing, and the timing was right for them. Since then there hasn't been any development of such a magnitude as smokeless powder, except perhaps for the shift away from revolvers in the US, where equally old former black powder calibers such as .38 Special are still prominent to this day. Perhaps if caseless ammunition had caught on, then things would be different, but people are still content with metal cartridges.

It's not that 9mm and .45 ACP are perfect by any means, since if either were then the other would no longer exist. They just happened to be at the right place at the right time, and to their credit, are rather practical. One can come up with something better today, but not enough to justify deposing them. It will happen someday, though, as nothing lasts forever.

 

[otomik]

I always thought the 9mm was developed because of a perceived deficiency in the 7.65mm.

The German military wanted the 9mm, so thats what they got.

true, there was that early family of related .30 caliber cartridges that started with the borchardt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.65x21mm_Parabellum

 

[Arkansas Paul]

All calibers are developed because someone wanted to overcome a deficiency in another one.

Really?
Was the .300 Win Mag developed because of a deficiency in the the .300 Weatherby Mag? (I know the thread is about pistol rounds, but this post did say all calibers)
Many cartridges are so close in real world performance that they overlap. If you want to hunt a specific animal, there are dozens if not more, calibers that will do the job well. It's all about personal preference, not overcoming a deficiency.
Generally, new calibers are developed so the companys make more money. Nothing more, nothing less. There are rare exceptions to this rule. Sometimes they actually make improvements, but I would wager that it happens much less frequently than it used to.
And I don't have a problem with that. After all, variety is the spice of life.

 

[dovedescending]

I just had an exchange with GeckkoFourtyfive via Facebook... he informed me that 9mm is crap as a defensive round. So I guess the expert told you fellas...

 

[MCgunner]

Well, I'm glad to know that bit of information. So, now, I'm wondering why there are any other calibers if .45ACP is so great? Is it just that everyone else is stupid? I guess. I own a .45, I like it, but it don't fit in my pocket.

 

[Wadero]

The only reason other calibers were developed is so man could create forums on the intranets to discuss them.

Just think about the first time you read through a "9mm vs .45" thread.... life was hardly worth living before that.

 

[NinjaFeint]

If the 9mm were ENOUGH, there wouldnt be a market for any other caliber really. It would be, the vundercartridge. Small, hi cap, light, can be put in many different sized guns, etc.

4 cylinder engines with 140 HP are enough yet we make 6, 8, 10 and 12 cylinder engines with upwards of 500 hp.

 

[dom1104]

4 cylinder engines with 140 HP are enough yet we make 6, 8, 10 and 12 cylinder engines with upwards of 500 hp

Yeah I agree, and I can see the correlation, but the 6 8 10 and 12 cylender engines, actually work better. I mean they are measurable faster, better, etc in every way.

People are still arguing wether there is any improvement, and the improvement is slight at best between the calibers as far as effectiveness.

I guess I am saying, there is no debate a 500 HP engine is more powerfull than a 140 hp one. There just.. isnt.

And yet we debate calibers, and there is so little data available there actually IS a debate.

Not including revolver calibers of course, some of which really are leaps and bounds ahead of auto-loaders.