Are high-end O/U shotguns worth the price?

[westernrover]

I always thought they just sold them to the Barbour set.

 

[jmorris]

To most they are not or they would be more common than pumps that cost a couple hundred dollars.

Kind of like a lot of people that haven’t worked with decent tools are fine with harbor freight stuff.

There are certainly diminishing returns as with anything a $1000 shotgun would be a noticeable improvement over a $100 shot gun, where the difference between $10k and $100k might be a bit more difficult to discern.

 

[GE-Mini-Gun]

2500 per week average is close to 50hrs of skeet shooting...some clay games are faster, but not by much.

 

[Jim Watson]

Trap is faster, I have been on hurry up squads that could have the other four guys shot and waiting on me to unload/reload.
When I was most active, our State Championship was 700 targets in 3 days; 100 16yd, 100 HC, 50 pairs in Friday preliminary: 200 16yd on Saturday; 100 HC, 50 pairs on Sunday. Various ways to shoot fewer, Sat-Sun, Sat only, Sun only, no doubles, etc.

2500 a week seems a lot. 2500 would be a big month here, shooting Thursday league and Sunday regulation.

 

[d2wing]

Interesting subject. Shotgun shooting is not just the gun or the shooter. It is a team. If I am going to shoot against other guys, I am going to use my fitted Beretta 686 Onyx. It hits where I look more than any gun I own. It makes a big difference to me. I have shot with the Colorado state champion sporting clays pro. He shoots a fitted Perazzi. It cost a new car. My Son-in-Law was along shooting an old 870 pump. I used a borrowed gun that the stock came loose. They both outshot me both shot very well, but that was before eye surgery, I couldn't see some of those fast battues in the trees. Not that it would help much, lol. I think that for a guy that shoots a lot and very well, it makes a big difference. The repeatability, pointing, fit, and reliability, ignition, and balance all mean something. Maybe not to a casual shooter. Some guys shooting 870's and 1100's have been shooting perfect scores in trap for decades. I have had cheap shotguns that have failed me at times. I hate that. When money is on the line you want a gun that is going to do what you expect. I think that's it. If your gun does what you expect that is what matters. Certainly not the same for all of us.

 

[eastbank]

the shotgun can make a big difference in persenal scores, but the shooter must be up to it. rudy etchen used a 870 rem punp to shoot 100-100 straight doubles and years later used the same 870 to do it again 100-100 straight doubles. i don,t know how many shells he shot in pratice, but his son could give us a hint, by the way he likes berettas.

 

[flightsimmer]

If I'm not mistaken the high end guns come with custom fitting to the purchaser, that would account for some of the high price wouldn't it?

 

[toivo]

Reminds me of a (ahem) frugal friend of mine that tried to claim that his $20 acoustic guitar that he bought in the Philippines was as good as my Martin D28. So we set them side by side on the couch, and I just strummed the open strings on both, one after the other. There was no comparison, and he could hear it.

However, there was no way he was going to lay out the kind of cash that the Martins cost. His $20 guitar served his needs, so he was content.

 

[entropy]

If I'm not mistaken the high end guns come with custom fitting to the purchaser, that would account for some of the high price wouldn't it?

Kolars do, and Ljutic used to. You can go to the Perazzi booth at the big shoots and have one fit, and the same for Kreighoff. You'll wait a while until they are done.
You can buy Browning 725 or Beretta 6xx series and put a PFS or TSK on it and have a gun that can be set for you, for far less that a fit P or K gun.
They all will do the job if you can. Some look better doing it, and usually have better features. My Ljutic has a fantastic trigger, and then I tried a friend's Alfermann. Wow. I bought the Ljutic because I shot one once, and it had everything I wanted in a single barreled Trap gun. They are built like a tank.
Sorry, I digress. Shoot what you want. I still start worrying about where my turkey or ham is going to come from when a grizzled old timer steps onto the 27 yard line with an old 870 TB or Model 12 Trap, because I will have a tough time winning them there!

 

[DustyGmt]

I have had a AA trap average since I was about 16. I held a spot on the All-State team in 1981. I may have been the Jr member of the team. But my handicap average was 3rd in the state and 19th in the nation that year. Those are official ATA numbers. My dad and I knew all the players. We were about as deep into the sport as you can get. I broke 24 100x100s including one from 24 yds. I did most of that with a model 12 Winchester. I did break several 100s with my current gun, an 870 Competition.
I said all that to say this....you don't have to have a high-end gun to break the targets....but it doesn't hurt.
Balance, lock time, stock dynamics, specialty bore machining, good triggers, point-ability , recoil mitigation, pattern control allplay a part in your ability to muck your way through 100 birds without raising your head and missing one...or two....or three......

Kind of like Rudy Etchen shooting most or maybe all of his career and records with an F Grade Remington 870 trap model. If I could have a choice between a K-80 or 870 TC irrespective of price and resale value, I'd probably choose the 870.

I have shot a couple of the high $$$ $30K+ Perazzi's, etc... they are something to behold and you can just feel the quality and durability in them. They are beautiful, I just don't see what it is in the materials and manufacture that would warrant $30-$50K. I think they are very nice and excellent in every way, just don't see what makes them worth that kind of money.

 

[Armored farmer]

Kind of like Rudy Etchen shooting most or maybe all of his career and records with an F Grade Remington 870 trap model. If I could have a choice between a K-80 or 870 TC irrespective of price and resale value, I'd probably choose the 870.

I have shot a couple of the high $$$ $30K+ Perazzi's, etc... they are something to behold and you can just feel the quality and durability in them. They are beautiful, I just don't see what it is in the materials and manufacture that would warrant $30-$50K. I think they are very nice and excellent in every way, just don't see what makes them worth that kind of money.

I have the pleasure of owning a 4E Ithaca.
It was the perazzi of the what? 1930-1960's? it is beautiful, quick pointing, tremendously fast lock-time, simple and fast. I never spent the time to learn to shoot it. It is said that a new gun takes 500 shots to get used to it. I wouldn't leave my pump guns long enough to give it a fair shake.
It has been said that the slow lock time of 870s and model 12s were responsible for many dedicated shooters developing a flinch. I'm not sure I believe that, but I can definitely see how it would be possible.

 

[cfullgraf]

On the other hand I outshot a guy fairly consistently on the Skeet field shooting my lowly Winchester 9410, shucking that lever on the doubles and he was shooting his fancy four barrel set O/U in 410.
.

When I was shooting competitive skeet, with my .410 tubes installed in my Citori skeet gun, I generally could match or beat a casual skeet shooter who was shooting a larger gauge.

But, .410 bore is a real attitude adjuster when it comes to skeet. One just has to look at the averages required for the different skeet classes between .410 bore and the larger gauges.

I'd practice with .410 bore mostly to show up some of the bad habits I developed shooting the larger gauges.

 

[cfullgraf]

A skeet historical note, pump shotguns were the guns of choice for skeet around the 1930's.

 

[Remington1911]

Reminds me of a (ahem) frugal friend of mine that tried to claim that his $20 acoustic guitar that he bought in the Philippines was as good as my Martin D28. So we set them side by side on the couch, and I just strummed the open strings on both, one after the other. There was no comparison, and he could hear it.

However, there was no way he was going to lay out the kind of cash that the Martins cost. His cheapo guitar served his needs, so he was content.

Then you likely know the diminishing returns as you climb the scale. A Fender mustang vs classic vibe vs mex strat vs US strat. After taking the first step from the mustang the differences get smaller and smaller. Some just vanish all the way around, and people that can actually play music can tell the difference. I can play notes but not music, there is a difference.

Checkout the old andersons videos.

Personally on the shotgun side of life all I can tell you is what I have seen first hand. Hand me a "fancy" shotgun and I shot no better, hand someone that is good at it an old hunting shot gun and he shot no worse.

All I have.

 

[entropy]

I have the pleasure of owning a 4E Ithaca.
It was the perazzi of the what? 1930-1960's? it is beautiful, quick pointing, tremendously fast lock-time, simple and fast. I never spent the time to learn to shoot it. It is said that a new gun takes 500 shots to get used to it. I wouldn't leave my pump guns long enough to give it a fair shake.
It has been said that the slow lock time of 870s and model 12s were responsible for many dedicated shooters developing a flinch. I'm not sure I believe that, but I can definitely see how it would be possible.

It also helped them develop follow through. Get out and shoot that 4E! Heck, I should follow my own advice, but once you try my Ljutic, you'll see why even my 4E doesn't get as much time on the line as it should.

Flues 4E 1914-1922, Knickerbocker 4E, 1922-1943, 1946-1968, guns sporadically built from parts inventory from 1969-@1975.

 

[DM~]

I have one of those so called hi-end shotguns, I bought it used and after shooting it for a time, I had it stocked right for me, what a difference! Instead of me having to "adjust to the gun", I now had a gun that fit me perfectly!

Can I still hit with my 870, sure but I love that shotgun that fits ME perfectly, and it's just so much more of a pleasure and easier to shoot! It's worth a LOT more to me than what I have invested into it!

BTW, I don't shoot trap or skeet...

DM

 

[Armored farmer]

It also helped them develop follow through. Get out and shoot that 4E! Heck, I should follow my own advice, but once you try my Ljutic, you'll see why even my 4E doesn't get as much time on the line as it should.

A nice Ljutic monogun is still a grail gun for me.
If I can retire in a few years, and turn thus circus over to the boys....I may start shooting a little again.
I'm afraid there are too many clubs that have closed down.

 

[entropy]

Not as many clubs as there used to be, for sure.
I just joined another one Sunday, shooting a 16 yard winter league. As a bonus (and at less than it would cost from a dealer) I picked up an 8# keg of WST powder from a friend I shoot with at several different clubs. I try to patronize the area clubs, some are a bit of a drive, but the camaraderie and mutual ribbing are worth it.

 

[Armored farmer]

Not as many clubs as there used to be, for sure.
I just joined another one Sunday, shooting a 16 yard winter league. As a bonus (and at less than it would cost from a dealer) I picked up an 8# keg of WST powder from a friend I shoot with at several different clubs. I try to patronize the area clubs, some are a bit of a drive, but the camaraderie and mutual ribbing are worth it.

That's great. I'm glad you still have clubs in your area.
We have lost three within an hour's drive from home.

 

[DukeConnor]

I've been shooting the same Browning o/u since 1972. It looks and locks up like it's brand new. I doubt a cheapo would hold up that well.

 

[Bill M.]

"Diminishing returns" are still returns. And maybe well worth it to those who need and can appreciate those returns.

 

[kalielkslayer]

I’m currently in the market for a “clays” shotgun.

I’ve always hunted upland and waterfowl. Minimal shotgun games. I have several shotguns, but nothing that isn’t semi or pump. I had an O/U I won at a Pheasant’s Forever banquet but I had it cut down for the wife since she shoots left handed.

So I read this thread with much interest.

Last May I shot trap as part of a team as a fundraiser for the local HS trap team. A couple guys that retired years before me convinced me to show up Tuesdays for trap, Thursdays for skeet. I got hooked.

All summer I shot skeet 4Xs a month, 5 station 2Xs a month, and 1 or 2 sporting clays courses. I was shooting 6-800 rounds a month.

I have 2 old (early 80s) Browning B80s. One fixed modified, one with chokes.

By August I thought I need an O/U. Just the abuse an semi takes, I wanted to reduce their wear. Plus chasing empty hulls.

I was given some great advice, “Shoot as many different guns as you can before you buy.”

Now I’m in the process. But I’ve decided $3,000 is my top so that limits me.

The “clays” games are fun and everything but upland bird hunting is my passion. And I can’t see me taking a O/U chasing chukar in lava rocks. My B80s already have those battle scars. And that 3rd round, 4th round in Nevada, are something I can’t get away from.

But to the OP, thanks for the thread.

 

[entropy]

3000 will put you in a nice used Browning Citori with money for flats of shells. If you look around on Guns Broker or Guns International, you should find plenty of good used Browning's and Berettas, maybe even a combo. A couple more good places to peruse online are Joel Etchen Guns in Ligonier, PA, Jaqua's Fine Guns in Findlay, Ohio, Monsoors Sport Shop in LaCrosse, WI.

 

[cfullgraf]

My skeet gun in the 1990's is a Browning Citori skeet grade with 20 and 28 grade tubes as well as .410 bore tubes. The guns barrel's are 28 inch. I shot the gun well in all the tubed gauges but I'm sure i would have done better with a higher end shotgun and some coaching.

More recently, I bought a Citori Skeet grade 725 with 30" barrels with the intentions of getting tubes for it. It will happen at some point but as of now it is not tubed.

Recently, I bought a 32": 12 ga Browning CSX, as well as Citori 725 in 20 gauge, 28 gage, and ,410 bore, all with 32 inch barrels. I think I made a mistake with the 32" barrels and should have bought 30 barrels. (Fortunately, my futere tubed gun will be a 30" length barrel.

I'm finding that with the 32" barreled guns, i do not shoot them as well as my 28 inch competition Citori from the 1990s.

I hope the 30" Citori 25 will shoot better than the 30" 725, but time will tell.,

Time will tell if the 30" barrel Citori 725 skeet model with tubes will shoot well fo.

I am not shooting skeet competitively these days although a high end shotgun fitted to me would be great. Maybe someday in the next few years, I can afford it. It would be casual shooting these days.

Bottom line, a bargain price shotgun will perform well at casual or beginner level for most fun shooters.

But, if you are planning to get more deeply involved with competition, a need to shoot lots of ammunition for practice is a definite must in the grand thing of things.

This is where higher end skeet grades shotgun shine.

 

[Remington1911]

"Diminishing returns" are still returns. And maybe well worth it to those who need and can appreciate those returns.

As long as you know the "returns" don't equal scores.