Are Les Baer, Wilson, and Ed Brown pistols worth the money?

[Aleko]

To get a gun that fits your hand, you change the grips. That's all Baer or Wilson will do.

That's one of the most ignorant statements I've read in a while.

Getting a gun that fits your hand is not just a matter of changing grips. It’s an easy way to make it a little better, but if you really want to customize your 1911 to fit your hand, it can be accomplished by replacing grips, replacing/modifying grip safety, altering frame, replacing/modifying thumb safety, and replacing the trigger. That’s what custom shops do, among other things of course.

 

[buzz_knox]

It really is about what you want. In a 1911, I want: all the parts to be properly fit and of sufficient quality to justify their inclusion in a defensive weapon; a trigger pull that will allow for accurate shooting; a properly fit and reliable barrel; all safeties mechanism postive and reliable in function; more than center of barn accuracy at 15 meters; that the weapon have no edges that would cause injury during manipulation; and that the weapon be exceedingly reliable with commonly available self-defense ammuntion. All this should be done without the need for being returned to the factory, and if repairs are needed, I shouldn't be given the run around in customer service.

So far, to get all of the above with a great likelihood of initial success, it pretty much limits me to a custom shop.

 

[Capt.Drydock]

With Rock River you can order the parts you want. I had them use some Brown parts when they built my 1911 for me. I don't buy all custom guns. I just wanted to have one. I enjoy shooting the 1911's. I wanted something I could use for steel plates and bowling pins. Came with a test target. 50 yard,five shots, 1 3/8". I can always punch holes in paper if I decide to. Capt.

 

[ZekeLuvs1911]

Absolutely! I own 2 Wilson 1911, a Clark Custom Guns 1911 and several factory Springfield and Kimber 1911's. Both my Wilsons and the CCG 1911s outshoot, in terms of accuracy, the regular plain 1911's. I don't change the way I shoot from one pistol to the other. Anyway whoever says that it is not worth it needs to try them before speaking.

 

[Ankeny]

If you just happen to like nice stuff, sure they are worth the bucks. I just want my 1911 to be a really good tool. I shoot a lot and I want the gun to run flawlessly, be smooth as silk, be nuts reliable, and run a long, long time. Those qualities are important at the higher levels of competition and they build confidence in your equipment. Do you need to spend thousands for a gun that will deliver that performance? Nope, you do not. But chances are you won't get it for anything less than the price of a Baer, Wilson, Rock River, Nighthawk, Ed Brown...

If you can't tell the difference and don't want to spend the money, buy a production run off the shelf gun and just go shoot.

 

[BriGuy1]

One of my favorite things to do with a newb on the range is show them my Wilson, tell them what it cost ($2k), then send a magazine into a single ragged hole (insert ooohs and ahhs here). Then I pick up my police trade-in beat up Glock, and do it again. Moral of the story: money does not buy you shooting ability.

Does anyone "need" a $2k+ pistola? Nah. Want? Sure.

 

[buzz_knox]

Following that logic, if you could do the same with a Hipoint or Lorcin, then you wasted the extra hundreds of dollars on the Glock, right?

 

[280PLUS]

I happen to have a fairly new Rock River Arms 1911 Custom Wadcutter that goes around $1500. I think it was well worth the money for my purposes and would put it up against any of the higher priced others as far as accuracy goes. So far it has been totally reliable too. Seems like a bargain to me when I read about $3000 other guns. As far as Glocks go. They may be ugly and feel like a couple of 2 x 4's nailed together but every one I ever shot seemed pretty accurate.

 

[wasrjoe]

Following that logic, if you could do the same with a Hipoint or Lorcin, then you wasted the extra hundreds of dollars on the Glock, right?

If being the big factor in this question.

 

[Frandy]

I really should stay out of this because I have only two .45s and only one of these is a 1911. I agonized about the 1911 purchase because I wanted reliability first and everything else second. Oh, and I didn't have a budget that was much more than $650 or so. First it was Springfield and then Kimber and then any used Colt within my budget. Then I went 'round and 'round again. Well, the fateful day of the purchase, I was in front of the case of used 1911s (slobbering, of course) and a guy said, "You should buy that one." We talked. It had been his and he sold it to the shop so he could get a new 1911 in the $2500 range. He already had five or six other 1911s. Well, I bought his former 1911 and never regretted it. For $525 I got a pistol that was in nice shape and the 1000 rounds I put through it so far has yielded only one stovepipe and two FTE. All three happened in the first 100 rounds on the first day I shot it. I suspect those failures were more about me than the gun. Still, I immediatley changed the springs and haven't had a hiccup since. Would I like a $2000 gun? Sure.... But, am I happy with mine? Oh, even more sure!

 

[Lonestar.45]

Eh, I think it's all in the eye of the beholder. Are you a Honda kinda guy or a Mercedes kinda guy, or something in between? Some guys are happy with their Hondas and would never spend the $ on a Mercedes, and some guys wouldn't have anything less. They'll both get you from point A to point B. Same with these guns. I'd be willing to bet that for 95% of the shooters out there, they couldn't shoot tighter groups with an Ed Brown than with a Kimber. I know I probably couldn't. And if they could, is that extra .25 of an inch worth the extra $? That's something for you to decide.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Some guys buy Hondas and then throw Mercedes money into them.

 

[farscott]

Worth the money? The answer seems to be "yes" to some, "maybe" to me, and "no" to others. It really depends on what one values in a 1911 and if one is willing to buy used.

For me, a stock 1911 need some work before it works for me. Not too much work, but I need better sights since I started wearing bifocals, a good dehorn to protect my hands and clothes, a flat mainspring housing to fit my hands, a decent mag well bevel to make reloads easier and faster, and a well-fit short trigger that breaks crisply around 4.5#. Everything else is optional.

Can I get that in a pistol less than $1,000 including tax? Perhaps with a new Kimber or a new SA "Loaded". But each of those pistols come with some baggage; one has a firing pin safety that may or may not be an issue and parts that seem to have strange failure modes (the only broken grip safety I have ever seen was the stock unit on a Kimber) and the other has a titanium firing pin and a non-standard mainspring on steroids. So there is some work there to make me comfortable.

I know I can pick up a used SA "Mil-Spec" customized by a top smith with all of my musts for $900. Why? Because I did it. Is a NIB Wilson worth twice my customized "Mil-Spec"? Perhaps not, but the used Wilson Protector I picked up for $1300 seems like a good deal to me when new Series '70 Colts have MSRP's around $1200.

So what is one buying when spending the bucks on a "name" semi-custom? Part of it is prestige, part of it is attention to detail, part of it is customer service, and part of it is lots of parts with that companies name on them. If you like Wilson parts, you can get a pistol full of them. If you think Baer's barrel fit to the slide is the way to go, Baer has a pistol to you.

In the end, only the buyer can say whether a certain pistol is worth the money being asked.

 

[gigmike]

Some guys buy Hondas and then throw Mercedes money into them.

True, but at the end of the day they're still Hondas.

If you have specific expectations of your gun you might as well spend the money upfront.

 

[dairycreek]

I have a Wison, 3 Kimbers, and 2 S&W's in 1911

All needed some tweaking to become fully reliable (even the Wilson) but now all of these pistols are outstanding examples of what 1911 pistols should be. Any big difference between them (except cost)? Absolutely not. Sure would not lay out the big bucks again to have a Wison or a gussied up Kimber. My favorite? One of the S&W pistols.

 

[Ford]

Are they worth it?
I would say it depends on what you are going to use it for.
Are you going to be using it for some sort of competition? IF so I would say yes. The Wilson I own seems to be more accurate than any of my other 1911's. It is the most accurate of any handgun that I have ever owned. The fit and finish is great as well.
That being said I am not sure that I would lay down $2000+ for another pistol if it were not going to be used in some sort of competition. Unless I just had some money to blow.
There are to many other guns out there at half the price that work perfectly for every other use. In everyday situations is it going to matter if you shoot a 1/2" or 1" larger group? Do you really want a 3.5# -4# trigger pull on your carry gun? That makes a big difference. I like Kimber. If I have been shooting one of my Kimbers, all stock triggers and I switch to my Wilson I have to be carefull untill I familiarize myself with the light trigger again. I have accidently double tapped targets not meaning to.
So yes I would say that the quality of one of the $2000+ guns is better than that of a $1000- gun. But all in all for everyday carry, defense, range or whatever the reason a Kimber, SA, Para-Ordnace, Colt etc.. can get the job done as well as any of these other pistols.

 

[mmike87]

Was my Baer worth $1900? You betcha.

All of my guns are good quality. But the details are what you pay for. Two separate pieces that EXACTLY line up with one another. Magwells that are PERFECTLY blended. A slide with ZERO play that runs failure free for tens of thousands of rounds.

It's a law of diminishing returns. I can get a gun that is 85% as nice as my Baer for half the price. There is a pride in owning something special ... something that a person genuinely labored over individually to produce the absolute best.

Pistols like this are more than tools - they are art. They are the product of precision craftsmanship. This level of craftsmanship is not for everyone, and you can still get a helluva gun for far less.

I handled a guy's Baer Custom Carry that he claimed had over 6,000 rounds on it. It looked and felt like it had just come out of the box. Still zero perceivable play in any of the fitted parts.

 

[Tman]

My advice would be to get what you feel comfortable spending. When shooting at the range you get to talking to some other shooters, they'll let you shoot their pistols. I let him shoot my P7M8, he let me shoot his Wilson CQB. After that, I had to have a 1911 (got a Valtro). However, one of the nicest, best shooting 1911's I got to shoot was a WW2 colt. His new $1100 1911 (can't remember which one) didn't shoot as well (in my hands) and didn't quite have as good a "feel" to it. Go figure

 

[Peter M. Eick]

To me yes. When I pick up any of my Les Baer's and compare them to run of the mill guns like Kimber, Colt or Springfield, you see the difference. Sure it costs more, but I like the fit and finish, and the accuracy is great.

I guess the best way to compare it is like this. I once drove a decked out Audi Quattro de-tuned race car. Amazing the quality difference when I got back into my wifes Toyota Camry. Both work but the Audi was a race car and more then I could really handle, but it made me try harder. When I drive the Camry, its just transportation.

That is the closest thing I can give as an analogy.

Look at it this way. When I take a shot at a clay pigeon at 70 yards on the berm with my 1.5" guarantee Les Baer 10mm, and MISS, it is My Fault, not the guns. It is more accurate then it needs to be to hit a pigeon. This forces you to try harder when you miss. It brings the best out of you.

 

[SamlautRanger]

A seiko or citizen watch will tell the time just as well for the most part as an Omega or Rolex. But with the Rolex and Omega you get refined insides and more custom finish. It is just a matter of having a luxury item.

My kimber shoots great, but would love to have a Brown or LB that is even finer fit.

But, I think the best deal would be to get a custom 1911 done up by say Yost-Bonitz. You will pay $2000 for the Wilson or Brown, and they are only semi-custom. They also well to a lot of dealers. So there is a mark up. So you are not getting a $2000 gun, but more than likely a $1500 gun, the other $500 is for overhead. With a custom Yost, you pay $2000-you are getting a $2000 gun. Plus he takes the best of all the makers and puts them together.

Well, a Yost is what I am saving up for! Got to have a custom 1911, to go with my custom 45-70, Sebenza wood inlay knife, Omega Seamaster and P7M8 jubille edition!!

 

[1911.45]

I also have an Omega Seamaster. A $5.00 quartz watch from Walgreens would keep time as well, if not better. But I really like the Omega. It is an automatic-winding mechanical watch. It does not have a battery. It is an "old fashion" but classic design, like the 1911.

I also have a Wilson Combat CQB, and it outshoots any other pistol that I have owned except for my custom-built pre-70 series Colt. I bought a SW1911 a while back. It was O.K. It didn't have the same quality parts and meticulous fit as the Wilson, and it was not nearly as accurate. It cost about one-third the price of the Wilson, and it was about one-third the gun. I sold it.

 

[DT Guy]

Does anybody else get tired of all this "any gun will shoot better than the average shooter" stuff? I'm no bullseye ace, but I can sure as heck tell the difference at 25 yards between a 3" gun and a 1" gun, and the 1" gun is BETTER.

Even if you can't shoot well enough to tell NOW, don't you want to be able to improve enough to tell someday? And with a gun that can't shoot better than 3" or 4" at 25 yards, you're really going to have a hard time gauging your progress.

Try this-get a really nice .22, and shoot it for a while at 50' or 75'--if it's a target grade gun, you'll be hitting business cards at those distances after a few hundred rounds of dedicated practice. If your centerfire can't do that, IT'S HOLDING YOU BACK!


Larry

 

[jzzmusician]

You're asking good questions, and people more knowledgeable than me are going to, and have answered the technical questions.

Ever bought a really good pair of boots? I mean *really* good? Remember how you felt when you wore them?

I remember the first time I ever had a really great pair of semi custom shoes. I have narrow feet and needed a pair of dress shoes for my job with AT&T. It was years ago, I was a sales guy and was, (gulp) an 80 dollar shoe buyer. I looked at the shoes and saw some that were unbeliveable. they were 200 dollars.

When the shoe salesman came to fit me, I told him I was an 80 dollar shoe buyer. He measured my feet, and came back with several pairs of shoes. I tried them and they felt like, well, shoes. Then he opened up a box and took out the 200 dollar ones. I protested, he insisted, and I put them on. Damn. It was all over. I walked out with them. I felt so damn good in those shoes that my confidence and sales went through the roof. And they lasted about 8 years -- far longer than the cheaper shoes would have. So long in fact, that they ended up being less expensive than three or four pairs of the cheaper ones.

I bought a Kimber for my first and so far only 1911. It just *felt* better than the other less expensive guns I tried. So much better that I ended up buying it, and haven't regretted my decision for one moment.

Having never held a Les Baer, Wilson, Valtro, or any of the other truly custom or semi custom guns, I am convinced that there is a real *something* about them, they're probably worth the money, they probably make you feel pretty damn good, and I hope to own one someday.

Good luck in your search.

jzz

 

[gooseklr]

Yes they are worth it, the work is hard to put a price on until you get the chance to go watch some of one being made then you can only believe the work and time that goes into making the gun of your choice. I chose Wilson CQB compact to me it was the best choice I have made also the most expensive of the 2 1911's I own and about 5 other styles of handguns. They shoot better than we can sMOOOOOOTH and very reliable. I have never had any " NEVER ANY MALFUNCTION IN MY WILSON NEVER" OVER 1,200 rounds. That is worth the money.

 

[rock jock]

Not only no, but Phuck no. A nice semi-custom Springfield runs $850.00. You're just paying for the name and nothing else.

If that makes you feel better to believe that, great. But recognize that it is completely without merit.