Are most hunters over gunned

No, I dont believe most hunters are "overgunned" but for a while here we will continue to see a bunch of folks minimally gunned as this sfar thing is yet to fully run its course. And run its course it will.
The new Sig 6.8 military platform might thankfully and mercifully be the beginning of the end of this.
Now if most guys were heading out with 338 Lapua then I would say yes.
But any common round 243Win up to 35 Whelen go for it. Its like different size tires on your Tahoe to me. Whatever you like.
 
A lot of the magnum craze had to do with a lack of adequate range finding technology and the lack of easily range dialed optics. The thought was more that speed flattened trajectory which made up for misjudged range.

Hold on hair to 400 yards was a common saying for the Weatherby shooter of the day.

Now days with easy to use and accurate range finders and super reliable and easy to dial scopes, it’s made the need for high velocity, flat shooting rounds far less salient.

With an accurate range and a good drop chart I can easily make shots with my .308 that I’d never have considered taking back in the days that I carried a .300 Wthby.

Depending on the wind a 500 yard kill shot on a deer with my .308 isn’t even a question. That was an almost impossible shot for me before range finding and dialing scopes. I wouldn’t have even taken the shot. Now it’s an easily done shot with a far less “capable” round.
 
H&Hhunter said:
A lot of the magnum craze had to do with a lack of adequate range finding technology and the lack of easily range dialed optics. The thought was more that speed flattened trajectory which made up for misjudged range.

Hold on hair to 400 yards was a common saying for the Weatherby shooter of the day.

Now days with easy to use and accurate range finders and super reliable and easy to dial scopes, it’s made the need for high velocity, flat shooting rounds far less salient.

With an accurate range and a good drop chart I can easily make shots with my .308 that I’d never have considered taking back in the days that I carried a .300 Wthby.

Depending on the wind a 500 yard kill shot on a deer with my .308 isn’t even a question. That was an almost impossible shot for me before range finding and dialing scopes. I wouldn’t have even taken the shot. Now it’s an easily done shot with a far less “capable” round.
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I have to agree that with modern range finders and optics making longer shots easier.
Magnum cartridges have two advantages and two disadvantages.
Advantages - flatter trajectory and more energy.
Disadvantages - more recoil and heavier rifles.
The new optics reduces the need for a flatter trajectory, but doesn't make any difference with the energy that is delivered at the longer range.

The disadvantages are shooter driven. Recoil tolerance and firearm weight/size are personal.
I feel the 308win is the best balance for deer size game.
For longer shots give me a magnum. I want more energy delivered to the target.
 
WisBorn said:
I have to agree that with modern range finders and optics making longer shots easier.
Magnum cartridges have two advantages and two disadvantages.
Advantages - flatter trajectory and more energy.
Disadvantages - more recoil and heavier rifles.
The new optics reduces the need for a flatter trajectory, but doesn't make any difference with the energy that is delivered at the longer range.

The disadvantages are shooter driven. Recoil tolerance and firearm weight/size are personal.
I feel the 308win is the best balance for deer size game.
For longer shots give me a magnum. I want more energy delivered to the target.
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No argument here, I will just add in a personal observation. I keep hearing from hunters that the .308 is a great round for “deer” sized game and I used to buy into that. Here is what my personal experience with the .308 on elk has taught me.

With a 165 Gr Accubond between my wife and myself we’ve killed 5 elk in the last 3 years. And with that 165 Gr .308 load the elk have been killed at;

524 yards, clean pass through, big exit wound. 1 round dead elk
572 yards clean pass through, golf ball sized exit wound 1 round dead elk.
547 yards hard quartering away, no exit. Elk traveled behind a hill and re appeared at 623 yards wife hit it twice more and dropped it. The elk would have died after the first round but we didn’t know it at the time.
200 ish yards, elk was quartering hard to, wife hit it right behind the shoulder getting one lung and then gut. Bullet was just under the skin in front of the off hindquarter. She had to finish that one as her shot placement was bad on the first shot.
465 Yards quartering to. Clean pass through big exit wound 1 round dead elk.

If we got back 4 years add in two more elk killed by me both with a .300 Dakota and 180 Gr Barnes TTSX. One at about 350 yards the other at 480 ish (I can’t remember the exact ranges) when hit in the vitals neither died any faster than those killed with the .308.

Inside of about 600 yards with the right bullet the .308 will pass through, expand, exit and kill elk just as efficiently as a big fast moving .300 Mag. People who haven’t used a .308 to its full potential underestimate its capability. And when I hear some say they’d do it with a .30-06 but not the .308 that is pure ignorance. If a .30-06 can do it the .308 can do it. And the ONLY difference between an 06 and .300 Mag is some additional reach they both kill about as efficiently. Beyond 600 yards the .300 Mags, are starting to become the clear winner. Most hunters who claim superiority with a .300 aren’t shooting beyond 600 yards anyway.

When I’m still hunting in dark timber I don’t feel over gunned on elk or moose in the slightest using a .375 H&H. But that’s a totally different style of hunting needing different capabilities.

With hunters in regards to cartridge capability, perception is a powerful thing and it doesn’t usually match reality.
 
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It depends on your definition of "a great distance". 100 or even 200yds or so is no big deal, I've never lost one that only went that far. When they go more than that, the blood trail often starts tapering off and they can get harder to track. The deer I took with .223 didn't go more than 40yds, but they were perfectly placed broadside shots. I might take a slight quartering away shot with a .223, maybe a neck shot if close enough, but quartering towards me : probably not gonna take that shot with a .223.
 
AJC1 said:
We both know that statement is just silly not even including the 284 mag. The 257 Weatherby and many others.
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Hell, that claim was silly just for the fact "caliber starting with a 2" includes 243win. After killing game with it, I'd be personally reticent to make such a statement about a cartridge which starts with TWO 2's, as I've knocked down several deer with 223rem and 22-250, but man, it's super silly to just blanket all sub-30 cal cartridges as underperformers... 6.5 Grendel (.264), 260Rem, 280rem, 284win, 25-06, 257Bob, 7-08, 243win... aka, most rounds an experienced hunter would point to as IDEAL for whitetails...

Show me someone who can't get the deal sealed with a cartridge which starts with a 2, and I'll show you someone who can't shoot for ****, or someone who is stuck on terrible bullet choices, or both.
 
Varminterror said:
Hell, that claim was silly just for the fact "caliber starting with a 2" includes 243win. After killing game with it, I'd be personally reticent to make such a statement about a cartridge which starts with TWO 2's, as I've knocked down several deer with 223rem and 22-250, but man, it's super silly to just blanket all sub-30 cal cartridges as underperformers... 6.5 Grendel (.264), 260Rem, 280rem, 284win, 25-06, 257Bob, 7-08, 243win... aka, most rounds an experienced hunter would point to as IDEAL for whitetails...

Show me someone who can't get the deal sealed with a cartridge which starts with a 2, and I'll show you someone who can't shoot for ****, or someone who is stuck on terrible bullet choices, or both.
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Yea between 7x57 and 6.5x55 they have taken game around the globe... might not be first choice for everyone but the evidence of effective kills is overwhelming.... I'm still sweet on 280.
 
AJC1 said:
Yea between 7x57 and 6.5x55 they have taken game around the globe... might not be first choice for everyone but the evidence of effective kills is overwhelming.... I'm still sweet on 280.
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If I held myself to more "universally acceptable" standards of hunting distance, cutting ~150-200yrds off of my personal maximum with my 300wm or PRC (or my wife's 7RM), I'd take any of those 3 on elk hunts with not an ounce of concern for under-performance in my heart.
 
Varminterror said:
Show me someone who can't get the deal sealed with a cartridge which starts with a 2, and I'll show you someone who can't shoot for ****, or someone who is stuck on terrible bullet choices, or both.
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My buddy Nate....I havent seen him hit yet with his .270.......wait no, he shot a couple cows....oh he and another buddy double-teamed a sheep last year.....
 
Hugger-4641 said:
It depends on your definition of "a great distance". 100 or even 200yds or so is no big deal, I've never lost one that only went that far. When they go more than that, the blood trail often starts tapering off and they can get harder to track. The deer I took with .223 didn't go more than 40yds, but they were perfectly placed broadside shots. I might take a slight quartering away shot with a .223, maybe a neck shot if close enough, but quartering towards me : probably not gonna take that shot with a .223.
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Depends on the bullet and size of the animal for me. A sub 200lb animals and a 55-70gr mono or bonded...or even a 70gr speer hotcore, and Id USUALLY take that shot, if the animal is moving fast I might pass or wait till its right on top of me before shooting it.
MOST off my .223 kills were rounds to the back of the head or the neck under the chin, but I killed quite a few animals with body shots using 50-70gr softpoints and even ballistic tips.
 
Hugger-4641 said:
quartering towards me : probably not gonna take that shot with a .223
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I'm probably not going to take that shot with a 300win mag either. I don't like unnecessarily busting up shoulders and ruining meat.

But when I'm deer hunting, I'm also generally comfortable with accepting the fact if a deer never offers me any shot other than some compromised angle, if a deer never offers me what I consider the shot I want, ideal, then I either wasn't meant to get that deer on that day, or I didn't do a good job setting up my hunt to get the shot I want and didn't deserve to get it.
 
I killed 2 out my past 3 deer with a 223 - 62gr Federal Fusion MSR out of my 16 inch iron sighted Windham AR15. Both were DRT.

https://www.federalpremium.com/rifle/fusion/fusion-msr/11-F223MSR1.html

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I've posted these pics before but 223 & AR15's are very commonly used by the yutes in my County. The local paper posts results of the youth weekend. Most of the rifles pictured are AR15's.

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@H&Hhunter I need to correct myself. I agree that the 308win is a great cartridge for North America game including Elk & Moose. Not sure if I personally would use it for Brown/Grizzly Bears. But I have no desire to hunt them anyways.
The key is a good bullet like your 165gr Accubond.

My personal max for distance is inside 500 yards. I feel a quarter mile (440 yards) is a long way with a lot of air. That I don't want to make an error on a living thing. Like the old Weatherby standard I want to hold on hair without making scope adjustments in the field.
 
WisBorn said:
@H&Hhunter I need to correct myself. I agree that the 308win is a great cartridge for North America game including Elk & Moose. Not sure if I personally would use it for Brown/Grizzly Bears. But I have no desire to hunt them anyways.
The key is a good bullet like your 165gr Accubond.

My personal max for distance is inside 500 yards. I feel a quarter mile (440 yards) is a long way with a lot of air. That I don't want to make an error on a living thing. Like the old Weatherby standard I want to hold on hair without making scope adjustments in the field.
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Every hunter and rifleman needs to set their personal limits based on their experience, skill level, equipment and knowledge of current field and atmospheric conditions. In a strong and or gusty wind or in bad mirage conditions my max range drops significantly.

The thing that a lot of hunters don’t understand are the extremely different terrain, cover and hunting styles that occur in different parts of the country/world.

The area my wife and I have been elk hunting lately is open high desert and the elk like to herd up late season when we hunt and they use the open country to their advantage. It’s almost impossible to sneak up on 200 sets of elk eyes in wide open terrain. So being able to reach out is a huge advantage. I’ve also killed a pile of elk in deep timber where shots happen at 200 yards and in for the most part.

We have modified our shooting and style of hunting to accommodate the long range nature of the unit we have been concentrating on. I’ve got a 10” by 12” steel plate that she can stick 10 rounds in a row into the general middle of @ 600 yards from a prone rest on her bipod. We practice that a lot.

Wind especially gusty wind is the variable that knocks those averages down.
 
No. Better to have too much than not enough. I can use a semiautomatic 30-06 for deer if I want and I have. It's not your business. But I can get by with a .223 if I want and have done that too. I don't understand some folks ideas and choices in hunting rifles but thankfully it's not my business.
 
rizbunk77 said:
I tried finding bad experiences deer hunting with 30-06, couldnt find any.
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For what it's worth I happen to know a couple of fellas who decided the 06 wasn't up to the task on Alabama whitetails, so they traded in for a 7RM and 30RUM. In both instances they felt confident they had hit the deer somewhere but the bullets must have failed because they didn't recover the animals. I didn't agree but it's their money and nothing wrong with having what you want.
 
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the 4 calibers pictured will take care of anything here in North Alabama. 223, 350L, 6.5 Grendel and. 308 my longest shot anyplace I hunt is 200 yards, if I ever get somewhere where further is possible the .308 and the proper weight bullet will get me on out to further than I'm willing to take a shot on a game animal
 
I hunt deer with 243, 6.5 CM, and 30-30. I also recently aquired a 300 BLK upper for hogs but will likely try it on deer as well. IMO, these calibers are more than adequate, but in the big picture are on the lower end of the scale when measured against some of the much more powerful rifles in common use for the same applications.
 
hawg said:
I don't believe in letting an animal suffer just to make a kill. I don't believe a .223 is enough to make a good clean reliable kill on a deer.
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It does if you do your job. I have posted pics of the near 300 lb 14 PT Minnesota buck I shot with a.223.
 
AJC1 said:
With guys running around with 300bo as a primary hunting rifle seems like bigger than 30-06 is just overkill.
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I guess it depends what you do with your overkill rifle. A guy in our hunting party used a 300 Win. Mag with the loudest and heaviest rounds I've ever seen. I would swear they shook the ground and the report broke windows in the farms around our area. For that reason alone, I hunted as far from him as I could. It was though, the gun he inherited from his dad. Now he is gone too. But I will add as the family reloader, I've been loading down for my family in both 30.06 and 7mm Rem. Mag. Most shots are under 150 yards. Ya just don't need a BMG at that distance.
 
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