Are most hunters over gunned

[AJC1]

It seems like a lot of hunters hawl around a lot more gun than is really reeded. Is it possible this is done to help the situation in case of a bad shot or is it just bravado that Billy Bob brought the 50 bmg to hunt hog. It seems like the area kinda drives what's required, so maybe it's just a one purchase in a lifetime thing. With guys running around with 300bo as a primary hunting rifle seems like bigger than 30-06 is just overkill.

 

[entropy]

A little of both. But, OTOH, I've seen a lot of hunters that would still waste game through wounding and not being capable of recovering even if the were hunting from an M1A1 Abrahms.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Im fine with 30.06 for deer. What i fear is when Pa goes to semi-auto. I think they are phasing it in. They recently allowed semi-auto for small game and varmints. If they limit the semi-auto to 3 rounds. I'll be a little more comfortable in the woods.

 

[bigpower491]

Probably.
I've know guys over the yrs to hunt deer with some pretty interesting calibers. 300 RUM, 338 Winchester, 375 H&H. I mean, I hunt em with a 338-06, but the ammunition is tuned for the task at hand. Charges are never at the upper levels, I like 225gr projectiles in this rifle and it certainly can take down anything in North America(as can a 30-06). For whitetails, magnums are definitely overkill, unless of course 250-300 yrd shots are the norm. I myself used to use a 300 Winchester , but I loaded it down to 06 levels for that task with 200gr Speer Hot Cors.
I'm going on antelope hunt next yr with my 454 Casull revolver. Sure it'll take down some pretty large critters, but my need is extended range from a revolver, like maybe to 150 yards. So I wouldn't consider myself over gunned there for that purpose. But some goober sitting in a blind with a 300RUM with a corn pile 50 yards away, sheesh......that's gonna be a lot of bloodshot meat

 

[red rick]

I don’t think so in my state of Virginia . I do have an older friend from Oklahoma that uses a 300 Weatherby magnum deer hunting here . He hasn’t lived here long . It is his only rifle and he use to elk hunt when he lived out west . He loves that rifle and did a lot of saving and trading before he could finally afford it . Our county laws kind of keep us from over gunning , a lot of counties are shotgun only for deer .

 

[mcb]

I have been accused of both over the years. I suspect I will be accused of both in the future. I like changing what gun I hunt with fairly frequently and that often finds me running around on the border of what many think is a good gun for the species I am after. I also like to varmint hunt with my choose deer rifle in the week running up to gun season and that often results in some spectacular overkill.

 

[wankerjake]

I feel like I find what people think is under/over gunned is just as interesting as what people choose to hunt with. As far as bravado, I also find it interesting how sensitive some people are to recoil. “You can’t shoot a magnum well because recoil” is something I’ve read over and over on the forums. My ex wife preferred my 300wsm to other rifles. I’ll probably have my daughters shoot it this season to see how they like it. Recoil is recoil, I don’t see why we have to be so afraid of it

And, I’ve found controlled expansion bullets to waste less meat than light and fast offerings. My 300wsm with Accubonds wastes about as much meat as my 243 did with cup and core bullets

 

[Roverguy]

Generally not, in their opinion.

 

[DeepSouth]

What’s wrong with over kill?

I always used to hog hunt with a 450 Marlin, definitely more gun than needed but I like it. So why not.

I frequently use a 7mm to deer hunt with, more than I need… sure. But so what?

 

[mcb]

What’s wrong with over kill?

I always used to hog hunt with a 450 Marlin, definitely more gun than needed but I like it. So why not.

I frequently use a 7mm to deer hunt with, more than I need… sure. But so what?

The only down side to over-kill is meat lost in some situations if your shot passes through large muscle groups.

 

[jmr40]

If someone wants to use one rifle, and only one rifle to hunt everything he is going to be over-gunned for most of them. And probably a little under-gunned for some. I think that in the past most hunters only had 1 rifle and based their decision on that fact.

You also have to understand that modern rifles, ammo, and optics have made many older cartridges much more deadly. A 30-06 used to be considered a mid-level cartridge. But in 2023 I can buy factory loads that are as much as 400 fps faster than the loads my grandfather used in Germany in 1918.

I started with a 30-06 fifty years ago and used it almost exclusively for a long time. Today I'd consider it over-kill for anything smaller than elk. I own multiple rifles and can choose less powerful cartridges better suited for smaller game. But if someone only wanted to buy one rifle for North America 30-06 would still be hard to beat. If I wanted to hunt every big game animal on the planet from whitetail to elephant with one rifle, I'd choose one of the 375 magnums.

 

[earlthegoat2]

My short answer is yes. At least I know I am. But…

What is over-gunned exactly?

I like 450 BM and 444 Marlin. Both are capable of killing anything in NA just like a 300 or 338 Win Mag.

I dont get meat damage with them but they both have pretty stiff recoil out of their respective rifle designs.

I would consider them a bit much for deer however, I use the 450 in a straight wall area and it makes a lot of sense to use it for that. It was around before 350 Legend or the newer offerings and I don’t feel like changing.

444 doesn’t make a lot of sense other than that I like straight wall cartridges and big bores. I grew up in a shotgun zone so hard recoiling guns just go along with hunting for me. I was going to use a 224 Valkyrie with 90 gr Fusions a few years ago but chickened out.

Last year I used a 300 Win Mag but only because I was going on a bigger game hunt later that year where shots could be longer and wanted to try it out during deer season. That cartridge works splendidly for deer. As do, 450 BM, 444 Marlin, 12 and 20 ga slugs and buckshot, 50, 54, and 58 cal muzzleloaders, and 44 Mag in a rifle (probably the smallest I have ever used for deer).

I just bought a 6.5 CM and may find the intestinal fortitude to use it for a deer this year.

 

[Varminterror]

Are most hunters over gunned [?]

Yes, grossly so.

I frequently say, for deer hunting, if I ever find myself in need of more than 100-140grn of bullet over 30-40grn of powder, I'm likely doing something I shouldn't be doing. Clarifying - that standard disqualifies MOST commonly recommended "deer hunting cartridges." But I've had my fastest and cleanest kills, and MOST of them, with itty bitty cartridges running itty bitty bullets through hearts and lungs - deer drop QUICKLY, and without argument. I've come to this standard of performance by testing cartridges and killing game, and just find I'm not making any concessions in using this class of cartridge - which consists of what the last few generations have considered to be "great cartridges for small women or kids," but which are rather, in fact, "ideal cartridges for the task of hunting deer."

Equally, ~15-20yrs ago, before sport hog hunting was as popular as it has become in the last decade, common advice you'd hear online for "what gun for hogs?" would include MASSIVE cartridges, 45-70's, 300win mags, .30-06's, etc... But some of us which were actually culling hogs on ranches even way back then knew we could stack bodies taller than the barn with a 223 or 22-250. We don't see that (relatively bad) advice online any more, because more and more folks have experienced hunting hogs, and more and more folks have shared their experiences and evidences online for those which have not hunted hogs themselves to see and learn. So now we have guys talking about micro-length cartridges, 450bushmaster, 300Blk, 350 Legend, 6.8SPC, and 223/5.56 as highly recommended hog cartridges, and the massive cases have been rightfully left to the wayside.

 

[Atavar]

I am probably overgunned when I go for whitetail. I carry either .300WM or .44 magnum revolver depending on brush. I do load down or buy less than maximum loads.
I will say I have never had to track a deer further than I could see them. With judicious shot placement I lose very little meat to damage.

 

[EIB0879]

We use to have a guy in our hunting group that hunted with a 30-06 and was notorious for wounding deer.

He bought a .300 Win. BAR and wounded deer with more noise and recoil.

 

[GarnetandBlack]

It seems like a lot of hunters hawl around a lot more gun than is really reeded. Is it possible this is done to help the situation in case of a bad shot or is it just bravado that Billy Bob brought the 50 bmg to hunt hog. It seems like the area kinda drives what's required, so maybe it's just a one purchase in a lifetime thing. With guys running around with 300bo as a primary hunting rifle seems like bigger than 30-06 is just overkill.

I don’t get the point. Are you trying to make a decision on what caliber to buy? If not, why do you care if someone has more than enough gun for a clean kill. A quick kill is a quick kill. More rifle is better than not enough. So, carry what you want. I like 35 Remington. If someone likes more…a lot more, then good for them. It doesn’t hurt a thing.

 

[AJC1]

I don’t get the point. Are you trying to make a decision on what caliber to buy? If not, why do you care if someone has more than enough gun for a clean kill. A quick kill is a quick kill. More rifle is better than not enough. So, carry what you want. I like 35 Remington. If someone likes more…a lot more, then good for them. It doesn’t hurt a thing.

I asked a theoretical question to generate discussion. I'm brandy new to hunting and I'm trying to understand consepts...

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Im fine with 30.06 for deer. What i fear is when Pa goes to semi-auto. I think they are phasing it in. They recently allowed semi-auto for small game and varmints. If they limit the semi-auto to 3 rounds. I'll be a little more comfortable in the woods.

Basically every other state allows semi auto and there isn't a wide spread epidemic of slaughter as far as I know.

As long as they make the requirements for bullets larger than .223 cal, it will keep Bubba from getting excited and using his clapped out AR the first year due to novelty.

 

[Gerd33]

Im fine with 30.06 for deer. What i fear is when Pa goes to semi-auto. I think they are phasing it in. They recently allowed semi-auto for small game and varmints. If they limit the semi-auto to 3 rounds. I'll be a little more comfortable in the woods.

Basically every other state allows semi auto and there isn't a wide spread epidemic of slaughter as far as I know.

As long as they make the requirements for bullets larger than .223 cal, it will keep Bubba from getting excited and using his clapped out AR the first year due to novelty.

Missouri has allowed Semi-autos for hunting for as long as I've been hunting (35+ years). Semi's are limited to 10 round magazines + 1 and all centerfire cartridges is permitted.

I can't remember ever seeing more than a handful of incidents per year at least not in the last 20yrs or so. Nearly all of them seem to be self inflicted, and when reading an article on an individual incident it's usually as people getting a rifle out of or putting a rifle in a vehicle.

The incident report for the 2021-2022 season summary is pretty typical:

Missouri Department of Conservation (MDC) reported four firearms-related hunting incidents during deer season with all being self-inflicted and three non-fatal with one fatal.

https://mdc.mo.gov/newsroom/mdc-reports-final-deer-harvest-season-more-293600


Back on Topic.

I chose to carry the .444 marlin this year which while technically over-gunned, I hadn't taken a deer with the rifle yet, so I chose to bring it instead of the .35 Rem. The .444 was quite effective on the doe I took at 23 paces.

 

[WrongHanded]

I think some of it is a case of "boys and their toys" and some is a case of "if you've got it, use it." Because, yes it seems the consensus is that .30-06 can get it all done okay, but a lot of people probably find the one rifle idea pretty boring.

 

[AJC1]

I think some of it is a case of "boys and their toys" and some is a case of "if you've got it, use it." Because, yes it seems the consensus is that .30-06 can get it all done okay, but a lot of people probably find the one rifle idea pretty boring.

I absolutely understand family herlume hunts. I acquired a 30-30 from a family friend who had lent it to my dad. I also have a Marlin 45-70. Both of those cartridges are old as time.

 

[GarnetandBlack]

I asked a theoretical question to generate discussion. I'm brandy new to hunting and I'm trying to understand consepts...

Oh, gotcha. Welcome! I will say that for many hunters, they want 1 rifle that they can take anything on the continent….even if they never use it. So, they buy a big rifle and hunt whitetail. No problem, like I said, too big is better than too small. Other hunters are just hobbyists and enjoy tinkering and shooting big cartridges. The rifle is as much of a hobby as the hunt, and sometime it’s fun to use other rounds than traditional whitetail cartridges like 30-30.

 

[wankerjake]

I got my kids a 7-08 youth rifle last year. Settled on a 120gr Barnes TTSX. Picked 120gr over 140gr because I happened to have a bunch of them. Considered it adequate for elk. Then we took it hunting last fall

My oldest daughter killed a regular sized cow, at 190 yards she got a pass through. My youngest killed a mule deer sized calf, it throttled that deer-sized elk at like 100 yards

My niece killed a big old cow elk with the factory offering 7-08 120gr TTSX. 80 yards, she short it twice in the lungs. One pass through and one beautiful Barnes mushroom under the hide

I’d absolutely let them shoot bulls with this cartridge with confidence, super impressed. I could make a case that the 7-08 is totally “overgunned” for deer especially whitetail doe which is a huge section of big game animals killed every year. Maybe the most big game animals killed in the US annually are whitetail does? With modern bullets and loadings, a lot of guys are crushing deer with 223 and good bullets

But. Am I gonna make it a point to use a 7-08 for bull elk as a statement as a perfect elk cartridge? No. Give me the horsepower. Wild animals are tough, elk are big, I can handle a bit of recoil. It’s not bravado or pride, I just like to hurdle big stuff at elk because I’ve seen them take a beating and I’m colorblind and can’t track blood. I have to shoot them with something, bigger is just free insurance to me

And, I’ve shot 90lb coues deer with my 300WSM 180gr Accubond. Past 200 yards they don’t catch a bullet and meat damage is minimal. I could make a case the 300WSM with a tough bullet is a perfect long range coues cartridge. Which would be silly case to make, but, the results speak for themselves

My point on this rant is that a lot of opinions are formed about cartridges we’ve never shot animals with. We just extrapolate incorrectly because of what we’ve used personally

 

[AJC1]

I got my kids a 7-08 youth rifle last year. Settled on a 120gr Barnes TTSX. Picked 120gr over 140gr because I happened to have a bunch of them. Considered it adequate for elk. Then we took it hunting last fall

My oldest daughter killed a regular sized cow, at 190 yards she got a pass through. My youngest killed a mule deer sized calf, it throttled that deer-sized elk at like 100 yards

My niece killed a big old cow elk with the factory offering 7-08 120gr TTSX. 80 yards, she short it twice in the lungs. One pass through and one beautiful Barnes mushroom under the hide

I’d absolutely let them shoot bulls with this cartridge with confidence, super impressed. I could make a case that the 7-08 is totally “overgunned” for deer especially whitetail doe which is a huge section of big game animals killed every year. Maybe the most big game animals killed in the US annually are whitetail does? With modern bullets and loadings, a lot of guys are crushing deer with 223 and good bullets

But. Am I gonna make it a point to use a 7-08 for bull elk as a statement as a perfect elk cartridge? No. Give me the horsepower. Wild animals are tough, elk are big, I can handle a bit of recoil. It’s not bravado or pride, I just like to hurdle big stuff at elk because I’ve seen them take a beating and I’m colorblind and can’t track blood. I have to shoot them with something, bigger is just free insurance to me

And, I’ve shot 90lb coues deer with my 300WSM 180gr Accubond. Past 200 yards they don’t catch a bullet and meat damage is minimal. I could make a case the 300WSM with a tough bullet is a perfect long range coues cartridge. Which would be silly case to make, but, the results speak for themselves

My point on this rant is that a lot of opinions are formed about cartridges we’ve never shot animals with. We just extrapolate incorrectly because of what we’ve used personally

The 7x57 and 7-08 seem like great middle of the road options. 7x57 has killed most things on the plannet.... I'm not keen on the idea of bear but dangerous game is a thing of its own....

 

[earlthegoat2]

I also like a cartridge that works equally well when everything is perfect as it does when everything has gone wrong.

If I point the gun at the vitals, no matter what angle on the animal that is, I want the bullet to reach the vitals. Smaller cartridges are not capable of reliably doing that for all scenarios. Many larger ones aren’t either. It’s not a huge deal usually. Wait for a better shot. I can control that. I cannot control a last second movement or some object in the way I did not see. A more powerful cartridge will give you the best chance to still make that kill.

Much like the magnumitis era, we are now living in an era where folks are trying to think up any excuse to go smaller. Just make sure you have the judgement to take a high percentage shot and the skill to put it where it needs to go. Then worry over the cartridge choice after that.