Has Remington done any lawyer proofing mods to the Model 700 rifles similar to the J-lock on their shotguns? I was just wondering, because if they have I may want to stray away from current production guns and look at an older 700. Thanks.
Are Remington 700s lawyer proof?
- Thread starter trbon8r
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mmike87
Member
They ship with the adjustable triggers set pretty heavy. I can only imagine this is for lawyer proofing the rifle.
pcf
Member
Hardly lawyer proof. Well worn 700's have been to known to have a problem with accidentally firing when the safety is released. The triggers are adjustable and can be easily adjusted beyond the point of being unsafe.
From around 2002-2004 Remington put ISS system on the bolts of the 700's but Remington has pretty much dropped the internal locks.
With the exception of the ISS models, the Remington 700 is about as far from mass produced, bolt action "lawyer proof" as you're going to get.
From around 2002-2004 Remington put ISS system on the bolts of the 700's but Remington has pretty much dropped the internal locks.
With the exception of the ISS models, the Remington 700 is about as far from mass produced, bolt action "lawyer proof" as you're going to get.
yeah, in addition to that lock, they put the lands about halfway down the barrel.
seriously, the .308 rem700 i had (purchased new around '02) made it more or less impossible to seat a 168g sierra anywhere close to the lands. attempting to do so would leave about 1mm of the bullet touching the neck (partially due to the boat tail)
it hardly mattered, as it would still shoot 1 hole @ 100 yrds on demand at pretty much any OAL i tried. it was still annoying just to know why they did it. it sort of takes all the challenge out of reloading too. bums.
seriously, the .308 rem700 i had (purchased new around '02) made it more or less impossible to seat a 168g sierra anywhere close to the lands. attempting to do so would leave about 1mm of the bullet touching the neck (partially due to the boat tail)
it hardly mattered, as it would still shoot 1 hole @ 100 yrds on demand at pretty much any OAL i tried. it was still annoying just to know why they did it. it sort of takes all the challenge out of reloading too. bums.
cracked butt
Member
Yup, I have a 30 year old .308 that has the same features. Doesn't seem to hurt accuracy one bit though. I just seat the bullets 1 caliber deep and forget about seating near the lands.
The trigger is easy to adjust and is a good trigger. The only thing 'lawyer proof' about them is that if you change the factory adjustments and need to send the rifle back to the factory for repairs, they will installl a new trigger and charge you the 100 or so dollars for your effort.
pcf
Member
The ISS is/was part of the firing pin assembly, it looks like a mole on the left hand side of the bolt shroud.
They seem to be a bit better designed than the ill conceived 870 locks, and should not be anything other than a cosmetic issue. For about $60 a gunsmith can replace the entire firing pin assembly with a factory one, or an after market bolt shroud for $25. My understanding from talking to Remington is that non ISS shrouds are not compatible with ISS firing pins, so if you're using factory parts it's a complete change over.
They seem to be a bit better designed than the ill conceived 870 locks, and should not be anything other than a cosmetic issue. For about $60 a gunsmith can replace the entire firing pin assembly with a factory one, or an after market bolt shroud for $25. My understanding from talking to Remington is that non ISS shrouds are not compatible with ISS firing pins, so if you're using factory parts it's a complete change over.
cracked butt
Member
Mine was made in the early 70s.
Harold Mayo
Member
Is anything truly lawyer-PROOF?
Lawyer-resistant, maybe, but I don't think ANYTHING is proof against those things.
Lawyer-resistant, maybe, but I don't think ANYTHING is proof against those things.
900Fcracked butt
Member
Hey guys, this is the High Road where we shouldn't paint any group of people with a broad brush. We shouldn't pass judgement on the 1% of good lawyers because the other 99% give them a bad name.
Grump
Member
Take it from a Lawyer...
Somebody *Did* try to sue the Devil. In a written opinion (may have lost and then appealed, been a long time since I read the case), the court making the final decision noted that it could NOT exercise personal jurisiction over that Defendant because, among other things, the Plaintiff had not proven than the big d had been, or even could be, properly "served" with the Complaint.
"Lawyer-Proof" is a lot like "bullet-proof". How "lawyer-proof" do you want? The problems with the older Rem 700 fire control groups are well-documented, described, detectable and all that. I would *expect* the new and improved versions to be *sufficiently* lawyer proof for any reasonable case.
One case I remember vividly involved a teenager (I think) who unloaded the R700 while on one side of a horse trailer, with the muzzle pointed at the trailer instead of the ground. The bullet went through the thin sheet metal on both sides, of course, and killed his own mother.
YOU, my friend, are the item that needs to be "lawyer-proof!!!!" Muzzle direction is most critical when you are *doing* ANYTHING to the firearm, whether you believe it's loaded or not.
Somebody *Did* try to sue the Devil. In a written opinion (may have lost and then appealed, been a long time since I read the case), the court making the final decision noted that it could NOT exercise personal jurisiction over that Defendant because, among other things, the Plaintiff had not proven than the big d had been, or even could be, properly "served" with the Complaint.
"Lawyer-Proof" is a lot like "bullet-proof". How "lawyer-proof" do you want? The problems with the older Rem 700 fire control groups are well-documented, described, detectable and all that. I would *expect* the new and improved versions to be *sufficiently* lawyer proof for any reasonable case.
One case I remember vividly involved a teenager (I think) who unloaded the R700 while on one side of a horse trailer, with the muzzle pointed at the trailer instead of the ground. The bullet went through the thin sheet metal on both sides, of course, and killed his own mother.
YOU, my friend, are the item that needs to be "lawyer-proof!!!!" Muzzle direction is most critical when you are *doing* ANYTHING to the firearm, whether you believe it's loaded or not.
Harold Mayo
Member
The Remington 700 is the bolt rifle I use the most for the simple reason that it's the most common bolt rifle out there and there are more accessories for it, parts are readily available and I know how to work on it. I think that the trigger mechanism is pretty poorly-designed in comparison to most other rifles but it works fine. Personally, though, I won't use any of the "newer" rifles with added-on safety features.
taliv, cracked butt-
don't blame remington for that, blame barnes w/ their 250 grain 30 caliber slug and hornady w/ their 220 grain round nose. a rifle has to be chambered to accept whatever 30 cal ammo is out there - and 220 hornadys are still available in a factory load.
if you really wanna have a hard time reaching the lands, try a ruger tang safety... to make it fair, try it in a caliber other than 30.
the only rem rifles i have a hard time reaching the lands on are 30 calibers. everything else is just fine.
don't blame remington for that, blame barnes w/ their 250 grain 30 caliber slug and hornady w/ their 220 grain round nose. a rifle has to be chambered to accept whatever 30 cal ammo is out there - and 220 hornadys are still available in a factory load.
if you really wanna have a hard time reaching the lands, try a ruger tang safety... to make it fair, try it in a caliber other than 30.
the only rem rifles i have a hard time reaching the lands on are 30 calibers. everything else is just fine.
Grump: It was the mother who killed the son. Nobody to this day knows whether she pulled the trigger or not.(How could ANYBODY know that for sure?) It is quite possible, however, to adjust the creep on a 700 trigger to the point that the rifle will fire when he bolt is closed. There was a defect in the triggers of 700s made in the mid-80's. That defect has been fixed.
The mother (1) should have unloaded her rifle before returning to camp and (2) shouldn't have pointed the rifle in an unsafe direction and (3) maybe, just maybe, should have kept her finger off the trigger.
The mother (1) should have unloaded her rifle before returning to camp and (2) shouldn't have pointed the rifle in an unsafe direction and (3) maybe, just maybe, should have kept her finger off the trigger.
wanderinwalker
Member
Don't blame the barrel throat as a Remington-only thing. I have an AR-15 that you can barely reach the lands on with an 80gr bullet! Then there is the old 1903A3 Springfield, .30-06 (of course!) that I just give up and seat rounds to magazine length for. And I doubt my grandpa's old .308, tang-safety Ruger 77 is short-throated either!
As for lawyer-proof, well, I figured out the trigger adjustment on my Remington 700. The ISS doesn't bother me much; never turned it on since I bought the rifle. Not even sure where the key is now!
As for lawyer-proof, well, I figured out the trigger adjustment on my Remington 700. The ISS doesn't bother me much; never turned it on since I bought the rifle. Not even sure where the key is now!
Commissar Gribb
Member
I think the only lawyer proof guns are produced under the make of "super soaker"
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