Are Sights Really Necessary on a Concealed Carry Pistol?

Which is why you should be integrating "shooting while moving" into your practice routine. At least you're getting half of the equation solved.

And I know I cant "consciously" focus on a sight alignment as I shoot while Im moving. But I can make good hits where I was looking when I do, letting my brain decide what to do about the "aiming" part, and I do it pretty much every time Im out shooting just to keep up.
 
15 yards, the approximate distance between the front door to the back of the average strip mall store.

Or, were you planning to wait until the bad guys get within 5 to 7 yards?

Or, are you that confident you can reliably hit a man-sized target at that range without sights.

Not confident at all, just wasn't seeing a scenario like the one you described. Understand your position a bit better now. Thank you for the explanation.
 
letting my brain decide what to do about the "aiming" part,
This is the hardest part for the vast majority of shooters, regardless of experience.
Allowing the subconscious part of your brain do the work is what most people mistakenly call muscle memory.
An interesting analogy for sights vs no sights and, consequently, letting your brain do the work is a simple point with your finger exercise. Look at something across the room from where you are right now. Something small. Now point at it. Chances are you are pointing directly at whatever you were looking at. There are no iron sights, red dots or aiming devices on your fingers yet you look at something and point directly at it. Now do it while you are walking. This works because you have been pointing at things since before you could talk or walk. Your brain knows what to do.
 
Had a brief romance with the SAS P365, and still have an SAS slide. In the right light, the dot-in-the-slide worked well. In the wrong light, it was about useless, and I haven't seen much mention over on the SIG board.
The White Church shooting made me rethink the need for sights, and the ability to use them in a hurry. Glock had a great idea with their 'ball in the bucket' big, ugly sights. For me, they work really well in a hurry.
A big, easy to find, front sight is a huge help to confident shooting. If you're unsure of your ability to hit things....
Do concur that trigger control is vital as well.
Moon
 
Many times during monthly qualifications and annual all-agency training days I covered the rear sights of duty guns with a dab of electrical tape. Then we ran shooters through draw/presentation/fire drills, with the goal to teach shooters to hit rapidly with index/point/unsighted shooting. (Choose your title.) Got the idea from Jim Cirillo, NYPD(Ret).

You will be surprised how, with training and experience, one can make well placed hits on threats rapidly without sighting out to 5-7 even 10 yards.

But, like everything else shooting related, it takes effort.

Stay safe.
 
Here is Cirillo’s taped sights sight picture using a Glock. Lots of straight, squared off lines do make Glock-style guns easier to shoot using the silhouette of the gun than some other types.

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Always a good idea to read reference-training materials to get a wider range of opinions and techniques to build your foundation, IMHO. These were sitting on my nightstand when I looked for the Cirillo book for the above picture. (Others are elsewhere.)

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Stay safe.
 
(They may not have been looking through the sights, but the sights were properly aligned with the target.)
If they weren't looking through the sights how do you know the sights were properly aligned on target?? My point is that you can have perfect sight alignment but if you push, pull, or otherwise mangle your trigger manipulation you will not hit what you were aiming for. Just go to any gun range and watch how poorly most people shoot regardless of sight alignment. If you can't master the trigger press, no amount of sight usage will help you hit the target.
 
As at least one other person basically said, its not necessary...just could be advantageous in some situations. Personally I think most times that you're going to need to pull your CCW its going to be a blur. You may barely have time to position yourself in a combat stance. Both you and your assailant may be darting around things trying to avoid each other but also not wanting to turn your backs on each other. Most shots will probably be sporadic and offhand from the hip, or from even weirder positions. In most of those cases having sites will be practically irrelevant. All that said, I am fine with the tiny little site on my little Radom P83. I'm able to draw from the hip and shoot off hand at about 7 yd and hit a basketball-sized object. Knowing that, I figure what's the point in having some kind of fancy expensive sights on it? Other guns I might be more demanding about the sights but for your typical concealed carry...no.
 
A retired armorer in my apartment building made the claim that sights really aren't necessary for concealed carry pistols. He claimed that the sights just slow you down.
What is his average time from starting the draw to first shot on target? I've been fortunate enough to train under several men whose time is well under 1 second. All of them would consider your armorer friend's claim to be ridiculous.
 
If they weren't looking through the sights how do you know the sights were properly aligned on target?? My point is that you can have perfect sight alignment but if you push, pull, or otherwise mangle your trigger manipulation you will not hit what you were aiming for. Just go to any gun range and watch how poorly most people shoot regardless of sight alignment. If you can't master the trigger press, no amount of sight usage will help you hit the target.
If at this point, your trigger pull is an issue, you need to go back and practice until its not an issue and you don't have to think about the trigger at all while you're shooting. If you have to think about the trigger while you shoot, you're doing it wrong. If you have to think about "any" aspect of shooting while you're shooting, you're doing it wrong.

Every time you present or sight a gun using the sights, your eyes go tunnel vision and see the sights and alignment, while your subconscious brain sees the whole, "big picture" and takes in all those other cues that it can use to get good hits, even if the eyes don't see the sights. Suarez calls it a "meat and metal" index. Think about that for a sec and let it sink in.

And you can easily prove this, just by picking out something across the room, and pointing the gun at it just below your eye and over top of the sights, and hold it, and slowly, without moving, roll your head down a hair, so you can see the sights, and you should see them on, or very near, to where you were looking when you presented the gun.


As at least one other person basically said, its not necessary...just could be advantageous in some situations. Personally I think most times that you're going to need to pull your CCW its going to be a blur. You may barely have time to position yourself in a combat stance. Both you and your assailant may be darting around things trying to avoid each other but also not wanting to turn your backs on each other. Most shots will probably be sporadic and offhand from the hip, or from even weirder positions. In most of those cases having sites will be practically irrelevant. All that said, I am fine with the tiny little site on my little Radom P83. I'm able to draw from the hip and shoot off hand at about 7 yd and hit a basketball-sized object. Knowing that, I figure what's the point in having some kind of fancy expensive sights on it? Other guns I might be more demanding about the sights but for your typical concealed carry...no.
I think whats being missed here is, up close, you need to be able to shoot quickly, repetitively, and instinctively, and do so while you're moving (any incoming rounds are going right to where you are/were standing ;)). People talk like they are going to be taking the time to get their gun out, and get a good sight picture, and aim and shoot like they are plinking in the back yard or something.

You need to practice as close as you possibly can to how you expect you might to have to shoot (and even better, anything you "cant" think of or just seems downright silly), if you have any hope of making things work. And you have to do that until you can shoot like that without thinking about the "shooting" part, or anything associated with getting to that point. I know, its a lot of hard and constant work, and I know its not perfect, but the closer you can get to that, the better off you're going to be.

And just an FYI, I don't know about you, but I cant run and shoot, and use the sights. Aint happening. ;) I also cant run and shoot holding the same "fixed" stance. I morph through pretty much every stance Ive ever used in the past as I go, and some that aren't any kind of stance. It all depends on which way Im going and where Im shooting.
 
And just an FYI, I don't know about you, but I cant run and shoot, and use the sights. Aint happening. ;) I also cant run and shoot holding the same "fixed" stance. I morph through pretty much every stance Ive ever used in the past as I go, and some that aren't any kind of stance. It all depends on which way Im going and where Im shooting.
Not only can't i run/ move/shoot and while using the sights, i can't even run or move quickly:confused:. This leaves shooting, and used to be efficient at double tapping multiple paper plates in a row pretty quickly while concentrating on the target. Then there was the ex State Police gun trainer that said there is no practical purpose for training with a pistol at 50 or 75 yards. Lost any possible respect for his ability's on the spot.
 
Are sights necessary on a defensive handgun?......well, in close...very close....they're certainly no hinderance and if you're farther out, the old adage, "Front Sight...Press, Front Sight...Press, Front Sight...Press, Front Sight...Press" always applies. Rod
 
Seems like there is a no-sight campaign on multiple gun boards.
It‘s a conspiracy.

The Seecamp FAQ goes on and on about the virtues of their pocket pistols without sights.

But the only first hand account I have is from a frIend who had occasion to shoot an armed assailant at close range. He said he could clearly see his sights against the pattern of the man’s shirt.
 
Combat/self defense shooting is much like wing shooting, you never look at the bead or sights, you look at the target (center mass) and shoot. You practice until you can look at the target, draw, and hit it. Not easy but essential. Low light or CQC, can cause you to try to find the sights and lose. FBI stats: 90% of gunfights occur under 7 feet, sights don’t matter.
 
Wow 90% 7 feet.
I remember when it was 70% 7 yards.

An apparently obsolete tactic was to make distance, you are probably a better shot.

I know that competition stuff will get you kilt on da street, but it is the only legal way to test technique, this isn’t a western movie where you can challenge the new gunslinger. .
 
That depends on several factors.

For example, in jurisdictions where ‘long range’ self-defense would result in criminal prosecution, sights are not necessary.
I've heard people say things like this before, and I don't understand it.

If I'm under deadly threat from someone, I have a right to attempt to stop them. That right doesn't depend on whether they've engaged me from 50 yards with a carbine or 2 yards with a knife.

I have to be reasonably sure of my backstop and avoiding collateral injuries, but there's nothing that says, "If your attacker is beyond 25/50/whatever yards you can't shoot back." What's the basis of your assertion?

Larry
 
Seems like there is a no-sight campaign on multiple gun boards.
It‘s a conspiracy.

The Seecamp FAQ goes on and on about the virtues of their pocket pistols without sights.

But the only first hand account I have is from a frIend who had occasion to shoot an armed assailant at close range. He said he could clearly see his sights against the pattern of the man’s shirt.
People are finally wise-ing up, and realizing that sighted shooting is a luxury, nearly a fantasy.

Usually we're fighting from behind, and trying to catch up.

If you have the opportunity to use your sights, you're most likely already on track to winning that gun fight.

If I can use my sights, and use a bit of cover........it's already over.
 
Seems like there is a no-sight campaign on multiple gun boards.
It‘s a conspiracy.

The Seecamp FAQ goes on and on about the virtues of their pocket pistols without sights.

But the only first hand account I have is from a frIend who had occasion to shoot an armed assailant at close range. He said he could clearly see his sights against the pattern of the man’s shirt.
I dont see it as a conspiracy, and I think Zerodefect is correct, and people are starting to wise up and being to see the light, and about a lot of things too.

What I see as a mistake here is, assuming there is one, and only one way to do something, and only focusing on shooting that one way, in all cases. Its kind of like you always hear, "kick them in the nuts" is all you need to know to do in a fight. If that's all you got, things arent likely to go well for you. ;)

I think this all winds back around to the "you only know what you know" thing, and if you arent willing to continue to move forward and continue to learn, you're just limiting yourself, and considerably.

And I do think a lot of people seem to think that "unsighted" shooting is "unaimed" shooting, which isn't at all the case. Unsighted shooting, is simply sighted shooting, done a different way. Unaimed shooting, is something else altogether, and more based in panic and lack of skill than anything else.

The whole point of always trying to continually learn, and to be as broad in your experiences and skills as possible, is so you have a good solid base, that will allow you to respond/react to as many different things as possible, in whatever way your unconscious brain deems necessary in the moment to get things done, and do so without having to think about doing it. And that all takes regular and varied practice so you've done it before, and you're comfortable shooting like that.
 
A retired armorer in my apartment building made the claim that sights really aren't necessary for concealed carry pistols. He claimed that the sights just slow you down.

Probably because they have become fuzzy to him years before he retired.

If you shoot enough and the targets are large and close enough, you don't have to align the sights with the targets, in order to hit them.

 
It's about limits. You limit yourself in the amount of time and money you spend on practice. You limit yourself on the kind of gun you're willing to carry. If someone wants to limit himself to defending himself and his family to a range in which he can hit without sights, it's up to him.
 
That depends on several factors.

For example, in jurisdictions where ‘long range’ self-defense would result in criminal prosecution, sights are not necessary
If "long range" (not sure what that means, exactly) defense is necessary and you aren't capable of using your weapon at whatever that range is, you won't need to worry about criminal prosecution.
If you shoot enough and the targets are large and close enough, you don't have to align the sights with the targets, in order to hit them.
Yes you do. The sights are still in line with the target, even if your eye isn't in line with the sights. There are people who are very good with a pistol without using the sights. Those people are a tiny minority. The vast majority of pistol owners aren't good with a pistol while using the sights. Taking the sights off would not make them any better.
 
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