Are we losing?

[Yo Mama]

Look around, and see what state legislatures have bills pending to repeal SYG or Castle Doctrine. I know AZ has none. Mostly sound and fury, with nothing of substance.

Although Brewer just gave a veto to public buildings as well as put a veto a few weeks ago on campus carry. Apparently her support for the 2nd Amendment has disappeared.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The media and self-seving politicos have already tried and convicted Zimmerman and are cutting the cards to see who will be the executioner.

As a result, we will never know what happened -- too many versions, too much venom.

 

[Cosmoline]

I suspect SYG laws aren't going to proceed much further. There are some legitimate problems with the laws and surrounding legal procedures.

But then again, SYG laws are NOT gun laws. They don't have anything directly to do with firearms. And all our standard firearm tactics include safe retreat when possible. We don't train to go boldly forward and engage a suspicious person walking down the street. We're not wearing armor, we don't have backup, and our CCW sidearm is a weak defensive weapon. In short, we're not cops. I'm perfectly happy to run away when possible.

 

[AWorthyOpponent]

“I think otherwise the NRA will continue to push for a broader interpretation of their understanding of what the Second Amendment right is, to the point where everybody pretty much can carry a gun, concealed or openly, all the time in any circumstance..."

Pretty much explains why I am a member of the organization...sounds like he knows what the second amendment is, and adds "and do with it what they want" to scare people.

 

[RCWFL]

It is obviously clear that this case will not be about justice in the public mind. This case is about taking an event and spinning it to fit your own personal agenda.

I watched the bond hearing today and both sides made an interesting case for Zimmerman's bond.

This is the only real substance any anti-gun organization or media has had for a while.

 

[SilentStalker]

This article should make something clear to us all! Yes, in a way we have lost the fight. The reality of it is, we do not have any 2nd amendment rights. I mean we do but we don't. Sure, you can own a gun, carry a gun, shoot a gun, respect it, caress it and do whatever else you want to with it to a point, but the moment you have to use it for a defensive purpose your 2nd amendment right is gone. You will be accosted and made to be a criminal with murderous intent. Forget the fact that the person you shot in this defensive situation was trying to kill you, mug you, or whatever. You will be deemed the criminal and the media will exploit the situation so much that you will want to move to Tahiti before it is all said and done. If you are lucky you can use all of your life savings, your family's savings, your company accounts, etc. to try to come out ahead and not go to prison for defending yourself. And then after all of that if you are lucky enough to be free, that person you shot will most likely have family come after you and try to sue you on top of everything you have just gone through. Sadly, they will most likely win. So, even if you come out ahead, you will have lost all pretty much over defending yourself.

The legal system in this country is so jacked up that there really isn't any 2nd amendment right anymore. The second amendment has become a marketing tool for candidates to get elected, think they have something important to do, right bills for or against, and above all a tool for manufacturers to sale you something to keep the economy moving or to make some greedy man richer. There are so many laws against other laws or for other laws that our own legal people do not even know what the hell is going on. It's a mute point and before you know it you will not even be able to walk outside your yard without becoming a criminal of some sort. We need to get back to the basics. There is simply too much governing without thinking going on. The current system seems to be designed to fail purposely to make you fall even more into the trap of big brother where they want you to believe that they know what is best. Once everyone is labeled a criminal then they will more or less have you where they want you, without any control over your own life. By this point in time the middle class will be a mere memory. It will be the rich and the poor, of which only the rich will be able to stand up and do anything either for or against what little of the country will be left.

Have any of you seen Hunger Games? That is a very alarming movie and sadly at some point, I fear there may be some, I stress SOME, reality to that movie. I sure hope not but the future of what was once the greatest country on this planet is looking pretty bleak.

I suspect SYG laws aren't going to proceed much further. There are some legitimate problems with the laws and surrounding legal procedures.

But then again, SYG laws are NOT gun laws. They don't have anything directly to do with firearms. And all our standard firearm tactics include safe retreat when possible. We don't train to go boldly forward and engage a suspicious person walking down the street. We're not wearing armor, we don't have backup, and our CCW sidearm is a weak defensive weapon. In short, we're not cops. I'm perfectly happy to run away when possible.
__________________

Well said Cosmoline, well said.

 

[Shinbone]

^ Got that right. Their "day" is coming, but it won't last long.

 

[wannabeagunsmith]

This article should make something clear to us all, yes, in a way we have lost the fight. The reality of it is, we do not have any 2nd amendment rights. I mean we do but we don't. Sure, you can own a gun, carry a gun, shoot a gun, respect it, caress it and do whatever else you want to with it to a point, but the moment you have to use it for a defensive purpose your 2nd amendment right is gone.

You are a very wise man.

 

[Yo Mama]

^ Not yet. This is a big story, but not the story. There are countless defensive shootings that are justified and go unnoticed. The media happened to make a story out of this one.

 

[harrygunner]

We're not losing. Zimmerman's actions were about bad judgement, not guns. In time, people will see it was about him, not our rights supported by the Second Amendment.

Back in the late 90's, Bill Kurtis, of A&E, produced a show about gun owners. At the end, he declared gun advocates will lose. The A&E website was flooded with posts supporting gun owners. They had to shut down comments, ultimately deleting them. Given what's happened since, he should produce a show of him eating his words.

Same thing will happen with current media pushing their "victim" agenda.

 

[Sam1911]

The best answer to this question I've seen is the concurrent thread reporting that WI has issued ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND carry permits in the last six months!

We have a long fight still ahead, but we ARE NOT LOSING.

 

[Ryanxia]

Well said Sam, and I know NICS checks were through the roof in 2011. Hopefully that means there are lots of new gun owners not just the same ol' people scared of the election again.

 

[Owen Sparks]

The pavement is after all a deadly weapon and Martin used it on Zimmerman.

 

[Shoobee]

So far as of this minute, Loughner and Zimmerman seem like a really bad pothole in the road.

Obviously, the proud and staunchly independent People of Arizona are not going to let Loughner interfere with their hard won rights. They live on the border with a country that transports drugs and crime into and through their state. Not like NY or ILL where they are deep in the heart of foolish thinking.

And if Zimmerman makes Florida re-think standing your ground, that should not be a big deal. SYG was never written in stone anyway.

Why do I think these two (Loughner and Zimmerman) are troubled? Because their thinking was off, way off, from what I would have done in their situations. Loughner deserves one more bullet, with himself as the target this time. And Zimmerman needs some time to cool of and think about why he was never chosen to become a LEO, for reasons that are now obvious to everyone else.

 

[alsaqr]

This is a big story, but not the story. There are countless defensive shootings that are justified and go unnoticed. The media happened to make a story out of this one.

Bingo!!!

At the national level "we" are not losing. In the 80s and 90s the Brady bunch were flush with cash and public opinion was in their favor. Now Mrs. Brady can hardly afford the rent and public opinion is with us. In 2004 the AWB witch went away, the US Supreme Court, in an arguably lukewarm decision, reaffirmed our right to bear arms, and "we" are allowed to have guns in national parks. Each year since the AWB was passed anti-gun congressmen propose a dozen or three anti-gun bills that never go anywhere.


There are anti-gun articles in the press and some TV networks milk certain high profile shootings for all they are worth. 25 years ago there were almost no news articles defending our right to carry concealed weapons.

Some of "us" live in states with severe anti-gun laws: The governments of some anti-states will become more anti-gun; One or two anti-gun states may loosen gun restrictions. Because of voter demographics and other reasons; most of the anti-gun states will remain that way.

There is nothing wrong with "stand your ground" laws. There may be inconsistencies in the way cases are handled by some police departments and/or some prosecutors.

 

[bbuddtec]

Personally, I feel it's been about personal advancement from the onset, coupled with the medias desire to play judge and jury before there was barely an arraignment

 

[whalerman]

Shoobee, the Loughner and Zimmerman cases have absolutely NOTHING to do with one another. The situations have nothing in common. Please don't attempt to link them. Your logic is extremely faulty. Please Sir, take a vacation. Please get out of California for a bit. Please Sir.

 

[Neverwinter]

So far as of this minute, Loughner and Zimmerman seem like a really bad pothole in the road.

Why do I think these two (Loughner and Zimmerman) are troubled? Because their thinking was off, way off, from what I would have done in their situations. Loughner deserves one more bullet, with himself as the target this time. And Zimmerman needs some time to cool of and think about why he was never chosen to become a LEO, for reasons that are now obvious to everyone else.

To be more accurate, the objections aren't about what you would have done in those situations but what a reasonable person would have done. That you happen to be a reasonable person is a coincidence.

Zimmerman and Loughner present different problems for RKBA supporters because the way in which the course of events was enabled . Not to mention the difference in responses to the two from people in the community.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

[gunnutery]

I just barely skimmed through the article. There have been too many articles posted from the Christian Science Monitor as of late and it's very clear that they are biased. I am very sick of hearing about the Martin case in reference to guns, especially from a biased media.

For the sake of argument, let's say that Zimmerman was in the wrong in everyway and is guilty of murder. One man's actions shouldn't ruin 300,000,000 other peoples rights. There are probably hundreds or thousands of people each year that act correctly to situations where they felt their life was threatened. The same media and social media frenzy has very quickly forgotten about the single mother who shot an intruder to save herself and her child. The UK passed greatly restrictive gun laws after ONE guy killed multiple kids and their violent crime has skyrocketted.

I like to keep abreast on world news, but what's the point anymore, you only see and hear what THEY want you to. We, the voice of reason are a back page, one paragraph, little blip of sanity in some section that nobody reads or sees.

 

[sig220mw]

The article is full of wishful thinking on the part of the antis. They are trying with all of their might to beat the drum for gun control because their predictions about blood in the streets with concealed carry legislation spreading across the country have simply not come true. This is only one incident and we need to not sit on our hands if we see it starting to get traction. Join the NRA or the 2nd Amendment Foundation or both. The people that bother me the most are the gun owners that sit on the side and say nothing but are willing to criticize the NRA when it speaks up. You don't have to like all of their positions on EVERY ASPECT of gun ownership. Have any of you EVER voted for a politician that NEVER took a position you didn't support? They don't exist. Be vocal and write letters to the editor, call legislators and be anything but silent. If we let them make all of the noise without us making plenty also they can win.

 

[Beach Nut]

Gun sales are still near or at record levels and most Americans according to polls are in
favor of personal firearm ownership. The Travon Martin incident has galvanized the anti gun
crowd and it may spur a review of laws dealing with self defense situations and the duty
to retreat. I do not believe it will stop the momentum generated by the Heller decision
that affirmed the right of Americans to own firearms.

 

[rajb123]

....the high mark for 2A rights was before Gabby Giffords and Zimmerman who were both victoms and who are now held up by grabbers as reasons to further limit our rights.

It is too early to tell what the longer term impact will be but it proabably will involve significant legal set backs....and a return to the gun control provisions enacted by Bill and Hillary Clinton.

 

[SilentStalker]

The only way this will ever be over, and deemed a win, is when the current political climate is replaced and your rights are no longer in jeopardy. That my friend would be a win without a doubt, but until then I would never say we are winning or losing as I do not believe it could be accurately measured as such. just because they are currently issuing more permits does not really mean anything at all. They could just as easily overturn that right tomorrow.

 

[whalerman]

One more softball playin' Supreme Court Justice, and it would have already been over. Sorry to keep reminding you of an inconvenient fact.

 

[X-Rap]

There was a news story reported across the political spectrum yesterday on how the POTUS has and intends to increase his use of Executive Orders to accomplish what he deems the peoples will. Pay attention to those actions, the story said he is the most prolific user of the EO's to date.
By circumventing Congress the WH can do all manor of damage with the Czars, and regulatory agencies. He is not the first to use them but possibly the most dangerous.