Are You Comfortable With Face To Face Transactioins?

[LeontheProfessional]

I just did my first FTF today and was a little nervous about it but I know realize that it is no big deal. What state do you live in? Some states have online guntraders which is the way to go because there is usually a feedback section. This way you can find out what type of person you are dealing with before you make the deal.

 

[rainbowbob]

I recently bought and sold a gun that had been stolen.

Wyocarp: I don't mean to pry, but it might be instructive to know what the "rest of the story" is.

Was the firearm confiscated - or did the buyer keep it?

Were there any recriminations for you?

If so, did you have any recourse with the person who sold it to you?

I'd be interested in knowing what if any liabilities there may be for buying, possessing, or selling a stolen gun unknowingly.

 

[Nushif]

Call me odd, but I sense a pretty deep distrust here.

Why would you *not* do an FTF if it all seems kosher? If the person is calm cool and collected and signs all the right paperwork, it's frankly not your duty to do any preliminary policing.
I mean, the question here is, would you sell to me, considering I have tats, am under 30 and likely to show up in cargo shorts and some loose clothing already carrying a gun?

I guess while personal the question here really as is as to why we, the gun owners are doing some sort of perceived profiling or police work? It's neither in our jurisdiction nor is it our specialty.

 

[Killermonkey21]

When I returned from my deployment overseas and was stationed at NC I had to wrangle with the County to get them to give me a Pistol Purchase Permit, as I was over 18 but under 21. So, all of my deals were FTF. One or two of the guys were hesitant as I didn't have a NC ID, but my .mil ID and the Permit were enough to settle their fears and I walked away with a USP 9c, a SW MP .45, a High Standard .45, SIG 228, and a Glock 22 respectively. All different people, all met in a public place, all were civil transactions with all legalities observed.

Trust your instincts, use common sense, and observe any legalities of your state, and FTF transactions can be just fine, in my limited experience.

 

[ChCx2744]

All my previous sales have been FTF. First time I was a bit nervous, but the subsequent times it just seemed casual. I prefer FTF over any other selling or buying method.

 

[bigfatdave]

Phydeaux642, I've only done face-to-face a few times, but it doesn't bother me one bit to do so. Your state would help to nail down the legal requirements, but generally the seller has no duty to do a background check or anything other than verify state residence and ask if the buyer is a prohibited person.
Xavier's blog has a sample bill of sale you could use if it makes you feel better, you could restrict to CC permit holders, or you could bluff in the EMail/phone portion and ask if they mind going through your local FFL.
People reluctant to do those things can be passed over easily, once again, if it makes you feel better.

You are not responsible for someone else's criminal actions, and a buyer is trusting YOU quite a bit to not sell them a defective, stolen, or NFA gun, so the civilized thing to do is meet somewhere neutral and somewhat public, do a bill of sale, show whatever ID makes everyone feel better, and do the transaction like a pair of friendly citizens, not two potential criminals.

So, where are you, and what do you want to unload?

 

[Victor1Echo]

Living in California with so many laws, if I moved out of this state to a friendly state, I would be scared to death to think "oh my god is this legel? I can understand your fear.

Someone said it earlier, post them on here for a face to face transaction. We're sort of like family here.

 

[GunsAmerica Fan]

I think that getting a PO box and selling online is the smartest way to sell guns, no bias intended because of GA. It is what I do. We even started a service that our gun dealers provide called "drop off locations. " The dealers ship out your gun for a nominal fee. It is so people could keep both themselves from being "cased" by bad guys and so that they could make sure there was a bound book in the custody chain of the gun if needed in the future for custody checks.

 

[Phydeaux642]

Thanks for the suggestions about looking into a state CCW forum and listing FTF sales on that site . I did and found out that the forum for my state is in the middle of being dissolved for various reasons, one of which seems to be the declining interest in it.

 

[pharmer]

FTF is the best way to trade firearms. At a show, obvious. Locally, use "prudent" judgement. If a guy is hot to buy your Jennings 9mm for $700, run away. If a guy nickel-and-dimes you endlessly over minutiae before agreeing to the deal, he's probably a "gun guy." Ask to see his DL just in case. Joe

 

[Arkady]

I've done a few FTF transactions. I always look at their CWP (no permit, no sale), and make sure we're not alone--gun show is good, or I'll handle the sale at my work. I run a specialty retail store (Cigar shop), and make sure that another customer who I know is present at the time of the transaction.

 

[Ledgehammer]

Do it at the local Range, preferably with witnesses. It goes without saying if You have the CCW, Use it.

Drivers license, and a "as is " bill of sale.

Personal experience leaves me unable to let strangers know where I live (craigslist Murder/robberies always stand out as the best reason) , It's just not the world many of us grew up in.

+1 this is pretty much the way I do it. I even have us both write up a bill of sale with signatures dl number and permit numbers if they have it. You can usually tell if somebody is shady or not. I still do it in public and cc just in case.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I have no problem with ftf deals. In fact, I prefer them.

I've been doing FTF sales for almost 60 years.

The most I will do is glance at a person's Driver's License or carry license to see that they are a state resident. I even tell them to cover up their name and address.
I give no info, name, address, etc, and I ask for none.
I want the gun's paper trail to end right there. I love to end the paper trail on a gun.


A lot of people are spooked if they don't get a Bill of Sale, etc.
If the person doesn't look "right" to me I don't do business with them.

Some years back a Police Detective called me about a gun I had bought from a dealer. The gun had been used in a killing. They tracked me 1,400 miles and that was before computers.
I told the Detective I had sold the gun a couple years before (legally FTF) and I had no idea who has it.
The Detective thanked me for my time.
That was the last I ever heard about it.


My friends and I figure a gun's value is increased by at least $100 if it doesn't have a paper trail.

 

[Ledgehammer]

Yea the value goes up - if your a criminal I guess. I'm sure your judgement is sound but I wouldn't be able to sleep with out some info on who I just sold to - I would be worried the police would show up at my door If the gun was used in a crime, since the serial number pulls up my name.

That's a bunch of unecessary hassle to go through.

 

[CapnMac]

Well, many of the gun show deals I've done were FTF, if just with dealers I'd never met before.
Part of it, for me, may be in dealing with folk here, which is also a form of screening.
Never had anybody balk at giving enough information to fill out a bill of sale.
Maybe I'm lucky. never really thought about it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

What are your feelings about FTF sales?

I've bought and sold several guns FTF. I ask for a DL to look at (not copy) for state residency. I ask why they want the gun (or tell them why I want their gun) and if they give me a reasonable answer, I take the money, give them the gun, get a signed receipt from them for the gun, I give them a signed receipt for the money and that's it. About 5 minutes for the whole deal. Then I usually lose the receipt in about a week anyway

 

[rondog]

True story. I bought a Winchester Trapper from a feller in a FTF deal. I pulled up outside his office building, he just happened to be outside at the time. Pleasantries were exchanged, and he said "the rifle's upstairs in my office".

So, we go upstairs, get off the elevator and head for his office. Big, bold letters on the door, "FBI Field Office". I nearly drained myself down both legs!

Turned out he was a helluva nice guy, just very businesslike about it. I got a nice rifle for a good price, all he wanted was a bill of sale. He did keep the rifle in a case and in his possession until we got to my vehicle, then we discretely transferred it and parted ways.

But I've made several purchases FTF, and at least one sale. Never had a problem. Now, if the other party looked like a gangbanger, tweaker, or other lowlife, I'd suddenly develop the wrong identity and NOT be the expected other party to the transaction. "Ron who? Naw man, not me, I'm Joe. Joe Mama."

 

[M2 Carbine]

So, we go upstairs, get off the elevator and head for his office. Big, bold letters on the door, "FBI Field Office". I nearly drained myself down both legs!

That's a good one.

I once met a Houston Policeman in a McDonald's parking lot at night.
I bought a 45ACP HK P9S from him.
I wish I had more money, he had a nice S&W and AR to.

No names, BOS, or info exchanged, except he showed me his badge and I was in my pilot's uniform.

 

[22-rimfire]

I have only sold face to face at gunshows. Some gunshops do consignments. It costs, but every gun is run through the FFL and the sale is done per the book. It also takes essentially no effort on your part. You set the prices and when they sell, they sell. The dealer will straighten you out if the prices are too high.

 

[leadcounsel]

1 gun per month is a good goal! I need over 400 to meet my goal!

 

[JHK94]

A little off topic, but I got a little tickled the last time I sold a a gun FTF. A on-the-fence/anti- gun friend of my wife's was over, and I got a call on my phone, and had to go. Our friend said "where do you have to go???"

Me: "uhh, I have to go sell a gun to a guy in a gas station parking lot..."

Worked out great!

 

[sernv99]

I live in VA and we are allowed to do FTF sales. I will not do a FTF sale unless the buyer goes through a dealer for a transfer. I prefer the gun to be "out of my name" if the gun is ever used in a crime. If the buyer can't pony up $20 for a transfer fee, it usually means he can't legally own the firearm to begin with.

Trying to "feel" someone out over the phone, via email, or in person, is not a foolproof way to guard against some degenerate bent on conducting a criminal act. There are people out there that have a cool demanor but who have reasons unknown to you that they can't legally possess a firearm and are intent on using it for illegal purposes. I would rather not be a part of that scenario. I don't need LE hassling me (e.g. asking for a bill of sale to clear my name), and I don't need the victim's families hassling me with a lawsuit, if there was a case of serious injury or death resulting from the buyer using the firearm I sold him. In this day and age, people want to litigate for every little thing.

just another view to consider. I would not even sell to my friends or relatives without a dealer transfer. I have relatives that I thought were normal, only to find out one way or another they got themsevles into drugs, violent domestic disputes, etc.

How about foreign residents obtaining state driver's licenses? Here in the DC metro area, MD issues drivers licenses to illegal aliens!!! (now I heard they are reviewing this and making it harder for illegals to obtain a driver's license) Even foreign residents who are here legally on a tourist visa can get a MD driver's license!! How do I know? Because a relative of a friend of mine is living in VA, using his friend's MD address, is on a 6 month tourist visa, and got a MD driver's licence, good for several months. *** My friend drove him to the MD DMV to take the road test and they issued him a DL the same day...sorry but I believe in only US citizens having the right to keep and bear arms.

 

[DeepSouth]

shipping a handgun seems to be a real PITA if you don't have a nice FFL buddy to do it for a reasonable price.

You might want to look futher into this. In most states you can ship a firearm to a FFL. You just can't receive one, and if your selling off then you want be receiving.



Also if the person you are selling to has a carry permit, then you can be sure they are legal. I wouldn't mind showing you mine but some folks would offended, your call. I personally don't mind a FTF transaction at all, just exchange property for money, say thank you and walk off.. But people are different.

 

[mcdonl]

First rule of life is to trust your instinct. I can usually tell in the emails and phone dialog whether I want to meet FTF.

Yeah, you got that. Sold a gun and the guy simply asked... "does it come with a loaded clip?" It was a 9mm semi auto, I said you know what... it's not for sale anymore. I also stick to people with a Maine CCW unless I know them.

As far as buying FTF, I like to buy at a range/pit so I can try it first. I bought an SKS that jammed like mad and ever since then I like to go through a mag or two...

 

[NMGonzo]

Post the guns for sale on the sale section and be done.

I have not bought a gun in a store yet.