Are you "Gun Amish?" Or do you have a Red Dot on your pistol?

[roo_ster]

For all y'all whose eyes have NOT aged like fine wine, maybe you started life NEARsighted with astigmatism, and later in life picked up FARsightedness...there are solutions to get a sharp front sight post without resorting to a RDS.

1. TRIFOCALS (of variousconfigurations)
Essentially, bifocals with another lens that splits the difference (Intermeidate). Intermediate will generally get you a sharp iron fornt sight post for pistols and rifles. If your cheek weld really puts your eye off at an angle (like, say, puting your nose on the charging handle of an AR-15), you may have to work that issue.

a1. Conventional Configuration (D Insert)
Conventional config looks like the usual bifocals with a "D" shaped lens insert laying on the round side along the bottom of the glasses. The intermediate lens is on top of that and is rectangular. Then the distance lense is everywhere else. Locations are like this:
DISTANCE
INTERMEDIATE D insert
READING D insert

a2. Conventional Configuration Franklin/Executive
Franklin/executive lenses are not D-shaped inserts, but go across the entirety of the glasses. The upside of these is that you do not have to move your head left/right to keep near/intermediate objects in focus. Can be handy.
DISTANCE all the way across
INTERMEDIATE all the way across
READING all the way across

These are the most general purpose of configurations for all life activities. If the conventional intermediate lens is too low, you may have to kep your head upright to see through it.

b. "Occupational" Configuration (D Insert Only)
If your eyes are like mine, maybe you have tried to paint the ceiling or work under cars and you have had to cock your head WAY back to get the close-ish object in focus with your glasses. That gets old, real fast. This is where "Occupational" trifocals come to the rescue. The intermediate D insert is up at the top of the glasses and the Reading D insert is low like conventional bifocals. Distance is through the middle. These allow, if you have trained for it, your old nice heads-down/arms parallel to the ground, slight crouch isosolese stance you may be used to after uncounted rounds downrange. The occupatoinal config is inferior to the conventional config if you use your glasses with a desktop computer with large screens at arms length. Also, I prefer conventoinal for driving, but occupational is still OK for driving. Occupational is best for shooting and working on autos, painting houses, flying planes, etc.
INTERMEDIATE D insert
DISTANCE
READING D insert

2. LASER (for low light)
There are training issues similar to RDS (target focus vs front sight focus). And they are not useful in bright light. But I have found Crimson trace laser grips last longer than most any tritium night sights I have owned (incl Trijicon). I prefer the laser grip for night sights and have them on all my J-frames.

 

[Rittmeister]

Bringing this back up. Here's my hot take:

1. It's obvious that MRD sights are effective and fast, particularly as people become more used to them.
2. While I really have nothing against using them, my primary arguments against them have been a) durability, b) they require batteries, and c) they're expensive.
2a. The durability is being improved constantly through materials research and general hardening of the units.
2b. Battery life is being extended as well. The red-dots I have on my rifles have absurdly long battery life while operating, and also have auto-off/shake-awake features to extend it even further.

2c. Is still where I break down, myself. My thought currently is that I and a lot of others might start using MRDs on pistols when the cost is comparable to a good set of adjustable irons or night sights. I'm about to drop Night Fision sights on my SP01, for example. They only cost me $115. Sig micro reflex start around $200, cheapest Holosun is $225 or so (very quickly into the $300 range), and of course Trijicon and Leupold start at $400 and go up. Then, for some pistols, you have to add the cost of having the slide milled.

I'm thinking that as more and more guns come from the factory that are optics-ready and include adapter plates for various sight footprints, negating the need for machine work that costs money, we will see an uptick in red-dot sales when some that are mid-high quality come under the $200 mark, or even down to $150 or so. I don't know if the economies of scale in production will ever allow that to happen, but it's been at the forefront of my thinking on the subject.

Just my $.02 - not trying to tell anyone they're right or wrong on either side of the debate...

 

[someguy2800]

If I were so scared of getting into a gunfight in my daily life that I would accept no compromises I guess I would wear a trench coat with a shotgun inside it.

Coming back to reality I most often carry 1 of 2 different micro 9’s with tritium sights on them, either in a pocket or OWB. If my only choice to carry was a full size duty pistol with a red dot I wouldn’t carry at all because the inconvenience is not worth it for me. Perhaps there is some form of holster in existence that will allow me to conceal a Glock 17 in a tee shirt with enough comfort for me to forget I have it, but I haven’t found such a method of carry yet. I’m still warming up to red dots but I still occasionally pull up and have to go hunting for the dot so I’m not there yet.

 

[someguy2800]

Here is one of my 3 red dot handguns. This one can be really hard to find the dot because it’s so far up above the sights that the irons are no help in getting lined up. Great fun to shoot at 100 yards though.

 

[trackskippy]

If I were so scared of getting into a gunfight in my daily life that I would accept no compromises I guess I would wear a trench coat with a shotgun inside it.

Coming back to reality I carry 2 different micro 9’s with tritium sights on them. If my only choice to carry was a full size duty pistol with a red dot I wouldn’t carry at all because the inconvenience is not worth it for me. Perhaps there is some form of holster in existence that will allow me to conceal a Glock 17 in a tee shirt with enough comfort for me to forget I have it, but I haven’t found such a method of carry yet. I’m still warming up to red dots but I still occasionally pull up and have to go hunting for the dot so I’m not there yet.

Been doing it on a daily basis for a number of years now with no problem. And its comfy too.

 

[I6turbo]

I have tube-style red dots, reflex sights, and green lasers (red lasers are too dim to suit me in brighter-light conditions). For HD or other SD, I prefer the green laser approximately 10x vs. either of the other two styles. I also enjoy plinking/practicing with the laser because it is very conducive to accuracy for me. I can shoot a reflex sight almost as accurately as a laser, but at about half the rate of fire for equal accuracy vs. the laser.

Below is an 11 yard, medium/slow fire target with a CT 206 on one of my CZs. Using iron sights on the same gun, my accuracy is not quite half as good, and speed is probably half as fast.

One of the MAIN reasons I like the laser for HD/SD type work is that you can pay close attention to what the target is doing (such as reaching for a weapon), while keeping your weapon's POI trained exactly where it needs to be -- you don't have to have a bunch of your attention focused on the sights in order to maintain a precise aim. The most important decision I might make in the remainder of my life could be whether or not to pull that trigger in a HD/SD situation, so being able to watch the target and make the best decision is highly important to me.

 

[Agsalaska]

I don't know how I missed this thread.

I went to the range when Springfield was out there with their new black plastic fantastic pistol(I can't even remember it's name) a couple of months ago and shot several magazines with and without a red dot. That was the first and probably last time I shoot with a red dot. I could barely hit the target.

I know a lot of people think guns somehow go obsolete when 'advances' come around. I am not one of those.

I doubt, if I am ever in another gunfight, that I even see my sights.

 

[someguy2800]

Been doing it on a daily basis for a number of years now with no problem. And its comfy too.

Happy it works for you. Doesn’t work for me

 

[mljdeckard]

Amish for now.

I am such a cheapskate, if I see a trend come, I will wait to give it a full cycle to see if it goes too before I decide to jump on it. I suppose if I bought another gun, and it already has the cut, I might take the plunge. But I'm still trying to really master iron sights, I feel like if I drop them for the red dot, it's lazy.

I mostly think MRDs are good for duty guns, but at civilian defensive ranges, the data seems to me a wash for iron sights for rapid acquisition.

 

[Riomouse911]

I have had dot sights on a couple of my AR’s for a few years.




For handguns, I am a newer convert.

I started with one on a 5.5” Ruger Mk IV…

Then I recently added compact dots to a Glock 17 build

And a Glock 43X MOS


I am learning the handgun dot sighting systems, there are a few nuances that must be mastered in order to be proficient.

Stay safe.

 

[GRIZ22]

No red dots.

 

[StrykerByte.45]

I tried. Im amish. Prefer dots not on slide, Rifle style, mounted high, zeroed at 100yds. Like the race guns. Not on carry guns.

 

[drobs]

For all y'all whose eyes have NOT aged like fine wine, maybe you started life NEARsighted with astigmatism, and later in life picked up FARsightedness...there are solutions to get a sharp front sight post without resorting to a RDS.

1. TRIFOCALS (of variousconfigurations)
Essentially, bifocals with another lens that splits the difference (Intermeidate). Intermediate will generally get you a sharp iron fornt sight post for pistols and rifles. If your cheek weld really puts your eye off at an angle (like, say, puting your nose on the charging handle of an AR-15), you may have to work that issue.

a1. Conventional Configuration (D Insert)
Conventional config looks like the usual bifocals with a "D" shaped lens insert laying on the round side along the bottom of the glasses. The intermediate lens is on top of that and is rectangular. Then the distance lense is everywhere else. Locations are like this:
DISTANCE
INTERMEDIATE D insert
READING D insert

a2. Conventional Configuration Franklin/Executive
Franklin/executive lenses are not D-shaped inserts, but go across the entirety of the glasses. The upside of these is that you do not have to move your head left/right to keep near/intermediate objects in focus. Can be handy.
DISTANCE all the way across
INTERMEDIATE all the way across
READING all the way across

These are the most general purpose of configurations for all life activities. If the conventional intermediate lens is too low, you may have to kep your head upright to see through it.

b. "Occupational" Configuration (D Insert Only)
If your eyes are like mine, maybe you have tried to paint the ceiling or work under cars and you have had to cock your head WAY back to get the close-ish object in focus with your glasses. That gets old, real fast. This is where "Occupational" trifocals come to the rescue. The intermediate D insert is up at the top of the glasses and the Reading D insert is low like conventional bifocals. Distance is through the middle. These allow, if you have trained for it, your old nice heads-down/arms parallel to the ground, slight crouch isosolese stance you may be used to after uncounted rounds downrange. The occupatoinal config is inferior to the conventional config if you use your glasses with a desktop computer with large screens at arms length. Also, I prefer conventoinal for driving, but occupational is still OK for driving. Occupational is best for shooting and working on autos, painting houses, flying planes, etc.
INTERMEDIATE D insert
DISTANCE
READING D insert

2. LASER (for low light)
There are training issues similar to RDS (target focus vs front sight focus). And they are not useful in bright light. But I have found Crimson trace laser grips last longer than most any tritium night sights I have owned (incl Trijicon). I prefer the laser grip for night sights and have them on all my J-frames.

It sounds to me that you would be a good candidate for laser eye surgery.

 

[Spats McGee]

I guess I'm Gun Amish, at least for the moment. I've stuck with tritium sights this long, and had zero failures. I am concerned that a red dot might die at a very inopportune moment. With that said, I've also only recently gotten my first red dot, and I kind of like it. So I've been at least considering outfitting my Shield Plus with some kind of optic.

I really like this line from the video, too: "Every Gun Fight is Open Division."

 

[Howland937]

I've developed a degree of astigmatism in my right eye that makes a red 'dot' look more like

Something you should investigate surely

now just a dot.

Something you may benefit from too

red dot
got me back in the game.

No clue if it'll help you, but added you anyway just in case.

I can't shoot a scoped rifle without either corrective contact or glasses for astigmatism. It's that bad. Red dots look like commas, or worse, comets.

Green dots have so much less "bloom" for me that I'm able to shoot lots and lots without any corrective lenses or eye fatigue. Trying to shoot through distorted or fuzzy sights/crosshairs/dots gives me a migraine after an hour or so. Green dot (more specifically, green circle dot) helps bunches.

 

[HKGuns]

I have exactly one pistol with an RDS, my S&W 44 Mag Performance center.

So yeah, I'm pretty pistol Aimish.

 

[Hokkmike]

Wait, let me get the gun out of my buggy and check.....