Are your guns safe in a safe?

[Urban Warrior]

I agree with alot of the folks here: They have to find it to steal it!

If you conceal the safe well (secret room, behind walboard, enlarging a closet, etc.) they have to spend time looking for it.

Another great idea is to get a cheap wood gun cabinate with the glass door, and put a few "junker" rifles, and shotguns in it. Clean them up real nice, and wipe them with oil so they look like you care about them.

Should someone break in they'll take the "bait" and probally not spend the time hunting for your real collection.

A friend of mine does this, and has taken intenals out of the "bait" guns. ...........UW

 

[sm]

Sorry to hear of his loss.
Mr. John Ross-welcome to THR.

Preacher-Yep!

I have personally responded to find the front of my 'employment' had had a wrecker driven through -one safe missing with a 1/2 million in valuables gone. In 2 hrs abandoned safe found, torched, everthing gone. Years later found out pros, had hacked insurance records and security measures...those evil black rifles they were found with...full auto...serious pros...they meant business...if I , or LEO had arrived in time....

I have seen a Tann safe that required [estimated 22hrs] over a holiday to take a cool 2 million. The smaller one [forget brand]was removed from its concrete /carbon bits and steel impregnated base--a weak area is the bottom...only 1/4 million taken from it.

I was always amazed when clients shared security measures, and were hit. I was always leary when the ins company came to do inspect of safes and alarms.

Thats why I prefer do not tell anyone anything, do not show off, and keep hid from site.

I do know some that have safes , but the way we did it, no body knows, and it'll be there when the house/bldg is sold or destroyed.

Oh-BG's show up after getting re-embursed. They wait and hit again.

Bad part about a really good system, easier to just kidnap , or kidnap a family member....

Better to be real low key, and keep mouth shut...I didn't/don't tell family or friends I might even have guns or shoot.

" When I had everything stolen, I only bought one handgun to keep at home...hunting...I borrowed this..."

I will NOT post how BG's find out where stuff is, how they circumvent security lines...if BG's were wired like reg folk, some would only have to work 20 hrs a week and still be filthy rich.

 

[Kenneth Lew]

A better question is whether the location you store your firearms are safe.

Does a secluded neighboorhood with little vehicle traffice or a commercial area with high vehicle traffic offer more security? How visible is your property to the general public? Will someone notice a tow truck smashing through the building and call the police? In my opinon the best defense is a lot of traffic and a lot of security.

Kenneth Lew

 

[arinvolvo]

Safes will thwart the guy that came in to nab your stereo and your tv....if they came in for the safe, they will get the safe.

Your question: "Are your guns safe in a safe?" was answered by your subsequent post....obviously not.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Jeeper, I am very pleased to say that you are wrong on the issue of gun safes not being burglar rated. The vast majority are not burglar rated and are nothing more than larger storage protecting against fire damage.

The part I am pleased about is that there are some available, but the problem is the cost of such safes is much more than regular gun safes. The ideal would be to have a "burglar" or "jeweler's" safe that has the appropriate gun racks inside instead of the normal non-gun shelving. Brown makes such a beast. They are not cheap, but they do seem to be one of the best ways to go if you actually want a burglar rated gun safe. See http://www.brownsafe.com/

Do note that the burglar and fire ratings on safes are usually expressed in minutes, such as 30, 45, 60, and 90. These are simply delay times before the contents can be obtained or destroyed.

 

[Jeeper]

Double Naught,

From what I see on that website (which I have seen before) I believe my statement is still correct. I said that no gun safes are "TIME RATED" not "Burglar Rated" which none of the ones I saw there were. I might be missing something but the "TL" listing is what I was talking about. I get your point but my general point is that most gun safes are to protect against the average idiot and not a pro. You have to get a pretty damn serious safe to get a time rating.

 

[Sisco]

Safes will thwart the guy that came in to nab your stereo and your tv....if they came in for the safe, they will get the safe.

That's the only thing I count on the Homak style cabinet to do. It's not much but beats one of those Oak beauties with glass doors.

 

[mussi]

My gun safe is in the cellar, actually built into the wall. Ripping it out is nearly impossible, and if you do, you'll have to find out how to move it out of my house which is situated right next to a busy road. Furthermore, it's wired to a good alarm system. And getting the safe out of my house through the stairs is impossible as the stairs and the elevator are not rated for the weight of the safe.

 

[newman32]

Interesting post. On the decoy line of thought - if practical, or affordable, would it make sense to have a decoy safe? Maybe with just bricks in it and have the valueables in other locations?

 

[Johnpl]

Is anyone reluctant to put their NRA stickers on their vehicles, thinking that the stickers advertise the fact that you're a gun owner, and would lead someone right to your door? I like to show my support for the NRA, but I've always worried about this.

 

[Sisco]

Decoy safe...
Guess I'm set up that way, actually have two of the Homak's; The one in open view contains stuff I could live without - Turk mauser, couple of beater shotguns etc.
The good stuff is in another one that is not in plain sight. My kids and their friends that go shooting with us have been told that telling people about my guns is not a good idea. I trust them but you never know who they might mention it to.

 

[4v50 Gary]

JohnPL brings up a good point about stickers. I have none on my car. About the only thing I sport is the American flag which conveniently covers my VIN #.

No stickers, license plate frames or rifle rack to betray my views or politics.

 

[Topgun]

And who was it who said...

living in the COUNTRY is safer? HAH! Best place to steal guns. My uncle kept his on a wall rack in the screen porch at the ranch.

Country folks start TRUSTING people. Big mistake.

 

[Kenneth Lew]

Is anyone reluctant to put their NRA stickers on their vehicles, thinking that the stickers advertise the fact that you're a gun owner, and would lead someone right to your door? I like to show my support for the NRA, but I've always worried about this.

Heck, I'm very reluctant to post what I have on the internet becuase there are a lot of crooks looking around.

 

[DigMe]

I have always been of the mindset that a safe is supposed to be hidden if possible and NO ONE knows you have it, for obvious reasons.

And yes I do have a med. sized one that is concealed behind a false wallboard panel.

Is this post a joke?!

brad cook

 

[Sven]

Just realized how poor my gun insurance is. John Ross' article at:

http://www.john-ross.net/insurance.htm

...was very informative. Check it out.

 

[arinvolvo]

Digme....I dont see how that post would be a joke, when you have a few other even more un-plausible ideas floating around this thread...such as:

Pouring concrete all over your safe,

and having a diversion safe filled with junk.

Not saying that these things arent possible, or that the posters dont actualy have these things, but when you think about it, a sheet of wallboard doesnt sound all that strange.

 

[bjengs]

I'm not speaking on DigMe's behalf, but I thought the same thing when I read that post. It essentially said, "the most important thing about having a safe is telling no one of its existence or location. Let me tell you where mine is!"

It's funny.

 

[sm]

One of our members is in the safe business, hope they chime in. I've been out of the loop for a bit, after "retiring" from a former life.

The Jewelers safes, Like Tann, and others that are high rated TR/TL by UL can run an easy 20K. These have time locks (you DO want more than one), spl combo dial (s) and Key lock (s). Some people use the "day safe method". Getting in and out throughtout the day just key lock(s). You see some systems require two persons with two different keys are required to be present at the same time in order to operate.

Used safes can be found, just have to contact the Corp office , usually best.

These also have glass inserts that in the event some monkey starts banging away or uses a burning bar--safe locks down tight--then you call a safe person--The company safe guy whom knew the companies safe -took 8 hrs to retrieve my mdse once after attempt.


I dropped 60 K on one safe, spent 5Ok for a just a door for a walk in I had built. Then I had to put an O2 tank in it in case staff was locked in during an armed robbery and ran out of air. Put in a hidden phone line too. ( before cell phones and 911)

These safes were kinda hard to conceal, but we did the best could. By nature of business it was kinda hard to conceal fact we had a safe. Not easy to deny and play stupid. Thats why any pro that knew what I /we used and the difficulty to get into without safe locking down would chose the easy way--Kidnapping.

I and others had to watch six, be careful of us, spouses, kids, any family being kidnapped. Take us in-- wait for timelock and take mdse. Don't imagine after the mdse taken much need for me after getting the darn thing open...not for a couple of million in mdse anyway.

Thats why I suggest low key when in public about guns, safes, security measures. Doesn't take a rocket sceintist to figure out or suspect a gun collection with decals, Brandxxx range bags and tactical looking gear...someone will pick up on it.

Hiding anything of value...hey the BG's been using metal detectors for ages to detect hidey holes...who do you think "prompted" getting detctors improved, better, smaller and accurate, Bg's , of course.

I assited with a "friend" , came home from vacation, alarm by-passed ( easy to do) and using sledgehammers , took the wall safe with 100K in jewelery from the safe hidden behind the painting.

All this security stuff does is keep an honest man honest. Pro's are called Pro's for a reason.

I cannot describe the feeling of seeing one safe taken , another $50k safe destroyed, and 2 million + taken in mdse. Sick, anger, just really don't describe the feeling. At least nobody got hurt, no kidnap attempts...those are tough...especially when kids are the target.

Explains why I have carried long before CCW, had guns scattered around and kept extra gun in trunk of vehicle. Defensive driving and street racing comes in handy to.

What guns? Guns are evil dude.

 

[arinvolvo]

bjengs, Digme...I gotcha now...that IS sorta funny....even though he really DIDNT tell us where it is, and none of us know where he lives.

 

[Kampfer]

Dang theives!! My safe is down stairs in the basement and it took a bunch of burley farmers to get it there. It ain't comming out before the cows come home hahaha.

 

[erikm]

Bummer to lose the guns

Maybe a mad idea here but how about this?

With webcams and computers becoming smaller and cheaper, it's becoming (or already is) feasible to wire part of your home with a camera system. One way is to conceal several high resolution webcams in the room where the safe is, with the output being sent to a computer elsewhere in the house. The computer should be a small lowpowered single board computer with no moving parts (they do exist) and a large UPS. Running on that computer should be software that detects image changes, i.e. something moving through the field of view. Image changes and the date can then be recorded to something like a flash memory module. This in effect creates an video recorder for the area around the safe. Flash modules are becoming big enough that you can store quite a backlog of images.

Of course, you don't tell anyone you have such a system set up, including the insurance folks (they can get hacked). It's probably legal since it's your home, but the less people who know about this the better. Until you get burgled and the perps get caught on camera. Of course, for added security you should have the safe set in concrete and embedded in the wall of your basement gun room, hidden by one of those 6'x3' racks you hang your gun tools and accessories on.

Cheers,
ErikM

 

[Hal]

On the decoy line of thought - if practical, or affordable, would it make sense to have a decoy safe? Maybe with just bricks in it and have the valueables in other locations?

Maybe, maybe not. It depends.
There's also the possibility that if the BG hits once and gets burned by the decoy, they may come back. This time, they may come back when you're home instead of when you're out, or they may just come in and wait for you to return, figuring if you'd go to that much trouble, there must be something REALLY valuable to steal.

Wife comes home,,,BG is waiting,,,BG doesn't really believe her and decides to wait it out 'till I come home.
BG w/time to kill + wife = bad situation.

YMMV accordingly.

 

[BigG]

IMHO, your best security is secrecy. Even somebody you trust may spill the beans about that guy who has all the guns in that house there...

 

[wendy]

I think BigG hit the nail on the head here, IMO
I was talking to the owner of a local gun shop last
week and he had a regular customer who was a truck
driver who boasted about his collection.

He came home one day to find his dog shot, his wife
badly beaten and all of the guns gone.

After hearing this, I firmly believe keeping your mouth
shut is the first line of defense and possibly the best.