Argentine mauser won't chamber reloads 30-06

[bigjoed]

I have a 30-06 argentine mauser and just started reloading. I have fired off hundreds of factory loads and never had a problem. I bought a LEE loader and DIE set and started reloading. The first reloaded bullet chambered would not allow me to close the bolt. The bullet got stuck in the chamber and had to bang it out. I measured the bullet with verniers and everything was in spec. The only difference I saw was the measurement of the diameter below the shoulder was @.003 larger than the factory load. I have ordered a headspace gauge from Midway to check that. I tried putting dykem on the bullet to see if it would leave a mark. None were noted. Is there something I should know about a mauser 30-06 chamber

 

[rcmodel]

The hammer-bammer LEE Loader only neck-sizes the case.

If you are talking about the little LEE Reloader aluminum C-press and real reloading dies?

That is an awful small weak press for full-length sizing 30-06 cases.

You may need to screw the die down further to get full shell holder contact after the press frame flex's away from it during sizing.

Otherwise, you are really not Full-Length sizing.

rc

 

[NCsmitty]

+1 on rcmodel.

It seems that you are not sizing the brass enough to fit your rifle's chamber. This can be checked without fully loading, by checking the empty sized brass in the chamber for fit.
You should fit the brass rim under the Mauser extractor to check.
You stuck the bullet by either not having enough neck tension, or you seated the bullet too far out into the rifling, or both.


NCsmitty

 

[sage5907]

I used to load cartridges for a friend who had a Argentine Mauser and it was a shorter cartridge with a .311 bore. You are saying that your rifle is a 30-06 which has a .308 bore. Did you go to a gunshop and ask for bullets for an Argentine mauser? If you did, they probably sold you the .311 diameter bullets which is .003 larger than your bore. Look at your bullet box and see what bullets you have. Whatever you do don't fire the rifle until you get the bullet problem solved. BW

 

[LeonCarr]

Are you sure it is a .30-06 and not a 7.65 Argentine Mauser? Is it marked .30-06? It might have been rechambered with a hand reamer and just a tad short chambered. Some headspace gauges and a chamber cast might help diagnose the problem.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[sage5907]

If my memory serves me right the original Argentine Mauser was called a 7.65 Argentine. It was a 7MM Mauser case necked up to shoot a .311 diameter bullet. This cartridge is a lot shorter than a 30-06 cartridge. If it still has the original barrel some gunsmith could have rechambered it to a 30-06 chamber but the bore diameter would still be .311and it would still use the .311 bullet but you couldn't size the cases with a 30-06 sizing die because it would neck the cartridge .003 too small. If it is truely a 30-06 some gunsmith has rebarreled the rifle. Look at the side of the barrel to see if it says 30-06 Springfield. BW

 

[AABEN]

You might not be full sizing the brass readjust your dies!!

 

[Zeke/PA]

Are you SURE that your rifle is in fact a .30-'06? Was ALL this brass shot in your rifle to start with?
Twas me, I'd make sure of some things first.

 

[rcmodel]

The OP said

I have fired off hundreds of factory loads (30-06 I presume) and never had a problem.

The rifle was originally chambered in 7.65 x 53 Mauser.
These rifles were imported to the US in the early 1960s and bored out to fit the 30-06, but the barrel remained with it's .311 bore.

So, it is either a 30-06 with a .311" barrel converted by the importer.
Or re-barreled or re-chambered to 30-06 by someone else later.

But, if factory loads work and his reloads don't?
This all points back to the sizing he is doing, or lack thereof.

A fired case that has been FL sized properly should fit in anything a factory load will fit in.

rc

 

[Jim K]

Not necessarily. It shouldn't happen but once in a while we find a sizing die that is not in spec and doesn't size the case enough, or a chamber reamer that is a tad too small and the rifle will work fine with most rounds but a few (factory or reloads) just won't fit.

Jim

 

[bigjoed]

Appreciate all the insights. The barrel says its chambered for 30-06. I ordered a bunch of headspace gauges from Midway. I'm going to a gunsmith with the shells and gun and ask them to check it out. Thank you all

 

[rcmodel]

But you said yourself it works perfectly with "hundreds of factory loads".

That right there is all you need to know to tell it is either a sizing die problem, or more likely the way you have it adjusted causing your problem.

That has nothing to do with headspace gages.

A "30-06 Cartridge Headspace gage" is all you should have ordered from Midway.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/685086/le-wilson-case-length-headspace-gage-30-06-springfield

And you don't need a gunsmith to use it to adjust your sizing die.


rc

 

[Jim K]

The fact that just about every possible gun problem is blamed on headspace tells me that most folks simply have no idea what headspace is, what is measured, or why it is necessary or important.

The nonsense continues. A recent post on another site informed us that since the bolt of an AR-15 type rifle locks into the barrel, it is impossible for such a rifle to ever have or develop excess headspace! Sure. Another said that an SMLE can never have excess headspace since the .303 is a rimmed cartridge. Interesting. Other experts tell us that headspace has no meaning for handguns and cannot be measured as there are no gauges. Hmmm.

Jim

 

[sage5907]

bigjoed, thanks for the update. Let us know what you find. I'm interested to know if the chamber was changed to a 30-06 but the barrel still has the original .311 bore. If that were the case and the rifle was firing factory 30-06 ammo accuracy should have been terrible. BW

 

[Zeke/PA]

Oh boy!

 

[AABEN]

I wonder if he is checking the case length it should be trim to 2.474

 

[vtuck2]

Something strikes me as very troublesome. Years ago, I had a pristine model 1891 Argentine Mauser. Going from memory the round was designated 7.65x53 but that may not be exactly correct.

After doing considerable research back then (more than 10 years ago) I had the distinct impression that the 1891 action was barely adequate for the 7.65 round, which (going from memory) was significantly lower pressure than the .30-06.

I do not claim to have even a hint of a smidgeon of the kind of expertise on firearms reloading that y'all do.

But, assuming yours is a model 1891 something is making the hair on the back of my head crawl. Perhaps your not being able to close the bolt is a little thwack on the noggin by God Almighty!?

I sold that rifle. I've sorely regretted it ever since.

V

 

[rcmodel]

You are right.

If the OP has a 1891 Argintene Mauser rechambered to 30-06, he has a ticking bomb.

I was assuming it was probably a later 1909 Model 98 Mauser that had been rechambered or rebarreled?

At any rate, I'm not real sure a 30-06 would fit in the 91 Mauser straight magazine?

rc

 

[ahandgunner2]

rcmodel,
I have the same issue as the OP. Bought an old Argentine Mauser that was marked 30-06. Fired 06 factory ammo and it was great at 50 yds but all over the place at 100yds. Guy at range knew these guns well and said that in the 60's when 7.65 ammo was hard to get, importers rechamberd these to 30-06. A quick check of serial numbers revealed mine had original barrel and then i slugged it and verified .311-312 bore.
So, I decided to reload the spent 06 casings - fully sized with Lee dies BUT replace the 308 pin with a 311 pin from lee so I could load the 311 bullets. Loaded a couple of boxes and got to the range and the same thing happened. It wouldn't let me close the bolt. COAL was well within spec and when I tried forcing one closed the bullet stuck in the barrel.

I brought it home and knocked out the bullet and will take apart all the rounds and try again but am wondering where I went wrong. Does neck sizing with larger pin do something to make the bolt not close? Is my sizing die bad? I bought the dies just for this and have never tried any in 30-06.

Any thoughts? I can resize the brass again and see if bolt closes on it without a bullet...then what? Thanks rc - I appreciate your help. Not sure if OP ever got his answer either.

 

[rcmodel]

1. Take the striker assembly out of the bolt so you can feel what is going on without fighting the striker spring..

2. FL size the cases without the expander in the die.

3. Then see if the bolt will close on the resized cases.

4. If that works, put the .308" expander button back on and put it in the die and try that.
If that works?

Your .311" expander is stretching the case shoulder foreword when it is withdrawn from the die.

5. In that case, you need to inside neck lube your cases before sizing.

rc

 

[morcey2]

ahandgunner2, I have a very similar rifle. It shoots poorly with 150 grain, ok with 165 grn flat-base bullets. I found a box of 180 grain round nose bullets and it really likes those, even though they're undersized for the bore. I did what rc suggested, but mine didn't have much in the way of neck clearance, so I didn't go that route. At some point in the next year, mine will become a 6mm Remington because it's already been butchered beyond restoration and it's the most awesome action I've ever felt.

Matt

 

[Jim K]

The Argentine rifles that were rechambered to .30-'06 were the Model 1909, a Mauser 98 action and plenty strong enough for .30-'06. The Model 1891 cannot be rechambered for .30-'06 except as a single shot since there is no practical way the magazine can be lengthened.

Many 1909 Argentine Mausers were rechambered for 30-'06 and can be fired with sometimes decent accuracy if the smaller bullet upsets enough. That depends on the makeup of the bullet, but accuracy is usually described as "minute of deer". I have seen those converted rifles shoot 4" groups (100 yds), which is more than adequate for most medium/big hunting.

But once the rifle is rechambered for .30-'06, only .308 bullets should be used. The chamber neck has been moved forward into what was the rifled part of the barrel, so it will be of a size for .308 bullets. Loading with .311 bullets will probably allow the round to chamber, but will NOT allow the case neck to expand properly and if the rifle fires, pressures will go sky high. The only time .311 bullets would be appropriate is if the owner has chambered the rifle to .30-303, a wildcat round, and uses the appropriate loading dies.

Jim

 

[RPRNY]

This problem is not unfamiliar to Krag owners. The Krag has a butter smooth action but the Springfield Arsenal was pretty fast and loose with bore specs. Options include cleaning up/rooming out the chamber neck ( only advisable by a skilled gunsmith IMHO), cast bullets sized .310/.311 and a Lyman M die, cast bullets sized down and paper patched out to .310, provided they will chamber. You might even try .309 cast and see whether with IMR 4198 you are getting enough obturation (bullet bump out) to fill the grooves, avoiding leading and delivering decent accuracy.

 

[fguffey]

sage5709, 7mm Mauser to 7.65mm53 Belgium? A matter of necking down, then forming the shoulder neck juncture and case body/shoulder juncture with a new shoulder, meaning the old shoulder would be erased and a new shoulder would be formed. 7.65mm 53 Belgum cases can be formed from 7mm57 cases.

Sizing 30/06 cases to .311, change the neck sizer plug to .310- little.

A necked down 7mm Mauser is a 257 Roberts or a 6mm Remington.

F. Guffey

Bigjoed, Careful, everything is called a head space gage, comparators are labeled head space gage, case gages are labeled head space gages with ‘length’ thrown in, then there is SAAMI, SAAMI does not list head space for the case, SAAMI list ‘length’ as in the case has length from the datum to the case head, no where in SAAMI drawings do they suggest the case has head space.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

Bigjoed, careful, click on the link above at your risk, it is possible to get case drawings when comparing the 7mm57 with the 7.65mm53 Belgium with the 30/06 and (with a little imagination) 7.65mm30/06. Most are scared to go beyond the warning after they clean their computer. My Computer puts up a flag, ‘WARNING! No Problem, We dealt with it’.

F. Guffey