Armored cars

[FourNineFoxtrot]

Let me begin by stating that I am well and truly drunk. Gloriously drunk. Keeping that in mind, I'd like to bring up an interest of mine.

What-all do you folks know about armored cars? Or armoring a car?

Long ago, when still a boy, I promised myself that one day, if I had the scratch, the time, and the inclination, I'd take some behemoth of a vehicle and slap some armor on it, just for kicks, or because I'm paranoid above and beyond what is reasonable for self-interest in this strange, "modern" age.

So here it is, for your amusement. If you were planning to armor up a car, how would you go about it? What kind of car, what kind of armor, and what's it meant to stop?

I'd like to think this is gun related, in the sense that the guns are what's likely to be fired at this hypothetical monstrosity.

Once upon a time, I'd planned to get my hands on one of the old-school military-style Humvees. Slap some sheet metal on around the engine, and bolt more of the same to the doors. Trouble is, a friend of mine recently showed me a piece of 1/4 inch steel with two holes in it: One from a .30-30, one from a .223. If it won't stop a medium rifle round, what good is sheet metal?

So tell me about armored cars, and the ways of armoring them, or the way you'd do it, had you the time and money and inclination.

 

[JWarren]

With gas prices the way they are, I am not really interested in doing anything to deter someone from shooting my Jeep.


-- John

 

[Jolly Rogers]

I have worked on some armoured cars...mostly limos and executive sedans but a few suvs too. To do it right you better have about a $100.000 to play with. That is what the proper materials would cost. Not all plate or sheet steel is adequate as you have learned.
The GSA in northern Virginia completely replaced every mechanical part on a Chrysler armoured car with NEW parts, from engine to differential and all suspension parts because it was cheaper to rebuild the car than buy a new one.(Complete exterior and interior rehab to boot)
Joe

 

[doc2rn]

^ Jolly me thinks it would just be cheaper to buy a used armoured car or van.

 

[stevemis]

I've seen this process on Discovery or Science Channel... perhaps How It's Made or How Do They Do It. These folks start with a new vehicle and completely disassemble it. They pitch the drivetrain (engine, transmission, differential) and replace it with something more powerful... armor adds a LOT of weight. The frame gets strengthened, the brakes and suspension are replaced to deal with the additional weight.

Mind you, at this point, they haven't bolted a single piece of armor on the car.

This is not a DIY project.

 

[dogmush]

Once upon a time, I'd planned to get my hands on one of the old-school military-style Humvees. Slap some sheet metal on around the engine, and bolt more of the same to the doors.

An up-armored HMMWV is, as you learned, a lot more then just metal slapped on. It's also unstable, uncomfortable, maitnence intensive, hot, loud, and all around not a very good vehicle. Sorry to kill the dream.

What you want is an MRAP. The good news is in a couple years there will probably be a bunch of them for sale surplus. The bad news is they'll probably be beat up pretty bad.

Also the up-armored Suburbans are pretty cool, but they're about $200,000 and only good for small and medium rifles. If you're really paranoid go for, at least, RPG resistant.

Although, the world being what it is, you could probably get an 80's vintage BTR for about what a Mercedes SUV runs. (Similar gas milage too)

 

[FourNineFoxtrot]

$200,000 for an armored suburban?! Christ on a crutch, that's expensive.

Aye, looks like my dreams of ramming through barricades and laughing as bullets bounce off my armored car's hide have been well and truly shattered.

MRAP's are well and good, but fall under the category of "Armored dump-truck", not that there's anything wrong with that. As any man who's played his share of Grand Theft Auto can tell you, dump trucks are beasts.

Ah, well. Dreams die hard, and dreams of DIY armored vehicles, bespotted with steel plate and ugly as sin, beautiful only to mad paranoiacs like me, die harder.

Anyone have an old M113 for sale? Heh.

 

[357WheelGun]

Find one of these in a used car lot.

 

[lacoochee]

Seems to me that to make a vehicle bullet resistant rather than completely armored wouldn't be that hard an endeavor. Thinking more in terms of likely scenarios for a member of THR and not some politico or mafia don. So in our case, the most likely scenario, would be an angry ex-spouse or some random road rage event, these scenarios don't require the ability to resists near misses with IED's they would just require some level of protection against common hand gun and intermediate power rifle rounds. I would start off with an F-250, and a couple of ballistic blankets and go from there. Pull door panels and place ballistic blanket material against door and put panel back on, maybe add ceramic plates in strategic locations later. Put big tool box in the truck bed and fill it with sand bags, bricks, or even tools. This does nothing for the windows. but you at least can now duck and be relatively safe and even return fire. Maybe tinted laminate on the windows, so they are resistant to being smashed in and not easily seen through... You could even line the engine compartment with a ballistic blanket if you want later, but this is not Falluja you will likely have some response by the police in short order once the shooting begins...

 

[dogmush]

Doing my part to enable really bad drunken decisions,

will an M114 do?

http://www.armyjeeps.net/armor1.htm

M114-A1-E1 , APC

A beautiful M114 , fully restored and complete with the M139 Gun , 20MM . It has a Title and is completely legal , garage kept and has never set out . It is definitely one of the finest and most complete I have seen .

Gun has;
TVS-2 "crew served" night vision scope with mounting brackets on the 20MM gun, M120 telescope with mount on gun, Flexible ammo feed chute with cover, Full set of new special size ammo boxes, all with proper markings, Power feed system for M139 gun, Extra feed chute for M139 gun.

Also included with vehicle;
Full set of manuals for vehicle and gun system, New surfboard with all attachments, Have all periscopes, some sealed and boxed N.O.S, M-19 periscopes withy spare heads and full IR power unit, Drive's M26 periscope, Full set of radios- all working, Gun mounts for Cal. 50 or M-60, Full set of all radios-all working, CVC Helmut with radio cable, Radio headsets(3), Intercoms, One complete spare set of tracks, Pioneer tools, Tool and manual bags, Two Laws rocket tubes (inert), Grenade boxes, Signal flags- new in the box, Fire extinguishers, 24Volt jumper cable, First aid kit, Tow cable, Gas can, Plus many small miscellaneous items and parts, most N.O.S.

This M114A1E1 is titled and totally legal.
Price: $66,500.00
Location : Herley , NM 88043

Seems like a steal. but I couldn't find it in Kelly Blue Book.

 

[sacp81170a]

Why not take a page out of Jethro de Bodine(Double Naught Spy)'s book? When he up-armored Uncle Jed's truck, he only concentrated on the area around the driver. This is similar to the approach taken in the A-10, where it would be too expensive (and heavy) to make the entire aircraft out of titanium, so the pilot basically sits in a titanium "bathtub" as it's been described. Of course, that leaves family and friends exposed to small arms, but what the heck, you can only afford so much, right?

 

[Funderb]

I wish I started drinking at seven this morning.

 

[FourNineFoxtrot]

Dogmush-

Don't tempt me like that!

In my inebriated state, weak of will, there is no greater temptation than the armored beauty of mildly obsolete military hardware. $66,500? A bargain at twice the price. Not, mind you, that I have twice the price. Or half the price. Or much of anything.

A man can dream, though. A man can dream...

Edit: Funderb, it's almost 0700, and I'm still drinking. God, it's nice to be unemployed. Not that I'd usually be drinking at sunrise on a lovely summer's day without cause. It's a special occasion, see... the kind where a man finds bourbon and bold words as befitting his status, rather than abhorrent to it. A personal holiday, with all that such a thing entails. Would that I had company, to share the drink and the stories. Alas, I've only the internet, and the imagined camaraderie of strangers with whom I share an interest. So be it, says I. Believe I'll have another shot, now.

 

[Keegan]

I wish I started drinking at seven this morning.

It's not too late to start now!


If you're going to spring for the coin to armor a car, I hope you're going to stick a BMG or two on there as well.

 

[dogmush]

Don't tempt me like that!

It's America, I'm sure someone will finance it for you. Call it a mobile home and call Freddie Mac.

 

[FourNineFoxtrot]

Freddy Mac! Ha. Will they give subprime mortgages on APC's?

"I'd like to speak to a loan officer about financing an armored car..."

Works wonders, I'm sure.

Sooner "mortgage" my soul to Old Nick himself; his terms can hardly be worse.

No, it's a pipe dream, same as my dreams of a mountain-top home, crisp and cool even in deep summer, safe from solicitors and uninvited guests. Ask me again if I win the lottery, or invent some needful widget to make my millions. Until that day, I'm beholden to no man.

 

[Kentucky]

This guy writes well when he is drunk. I like the way he thinks too

Those ballistic blankets are pretty neat. Now ya'll have me thinking of a project with my Jeep or my wife's Explorer...

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

Check your state laws. Armored car = felony in Michigan (except for specially licensed armored car services)

 

[Jimfern]

ebay

These show up on ebay every now and then. I have the non-armored version and am very happy with it.

http://www.netcarshow.com/cadillac/2004-deville_armored/

 

[M1911]

As others have pointed out, it just isn't practical to create your own armored car. You have to armor not only the sheet metal, but the glass, the roof, the floor, and the hardest part -- the door surrounds. Once you've done that, the car is far, far heavier than before, so all the running gear needs to be upgraded. That means upgrading the drivetrain, replacing the suspension, replacing the brakes, tires, and wheels. That adds even more weight.

The only practical way to do it is to buy one. Get a Mercedes S600 Guard or go to a coachbuilder like these guys: http://www.texasarmoring.com/index.html

Bring lots of money.

 

[DFW1911]

You may want to consider one of these.

Be sure and check the gallery: http://www.ibistek.com/sv_1501.php

RRV 1501 'Jackal' Specifications

* B4 Armor Protection
* Remote Control Weapons Station
* 7.62mm Machine Gun 200 rounds
* Low Light Camera
* Remote Charging device to unload rounds from within vehicle.
* Fully Retractable with Hard Roof
* Four (4) Passengers

 

[dewage83]

Would the tank be a DD?

 

[TehK1w1]

The weapons would be removed or dewatted, so it shouldn't be a DD. Check your state laws first I believe tanks are legal here in TX, I dunno about other states.

 

[bdickens]

http://www.texcalibur.com/index.shtml

 

[Eightball]

Just keep an eye on Ebay Motors. Every now and then, an older SWAT vehicle or APC comes up for sale for relatively cheap.

Research what comes up, see how thick is the armor plate and what type, buy a small bit of the same armor and shoot it with what you're worried about penetrating it to see if it'll hold muster.

FWIW, I'm not drunk, and have thought about getting an old tank/SWAT car/APC and restoring it to "usable" condition, and keeping it in a purpose-built shack on the property, as a "just-in-case" type thing. Katrina rifle? Screw that, I've got a Katrina APC!