Armorers and Firearms instructors, I have just been given a huge mess. My Institution has lost its armorer due to a sexual harassment complaint (it's ugly so don't ask) any way, I have been given the job and I need some help. I have done a preliminary inventory and everything seems to be there but there are no records for anything. No maintenance records, no firearms record books, no round counts, nothing. We have a pretty good policy in place but we generate our own forms and records so I have nothing to go on. If anybody out there has some examples of records, forms or procedures, I could surely use the help. I recently became a certified NRA Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor (Pistol / Shotgun), and a factory certified H&K armorer, so i have an idea of what's needed but if anyone has some experience as an armorer I would like some advice please. Thanks much
Armorers, I need your help
- Thread starter Tierhog
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Now *there's* a cluster for you.
A couple of thoughts. NRA police training section might have some ideas for you so call them and pick their brains.
Years ago I took a S&W class on "firearms program management". Not bad. I *might* still have the notes and if you get totally desperate PM me and I will see what I have. Fortunately (or not) my agency had procedures in place and at least there was a framework to work with.
The Instructor for that class was a Bert DuVernay, as I recall, and I think he is still lurking around S&W somewhere. Might be worth a shot.
Sounds like anything you do will be an improvement.
I would definitely get it documented that you have started at zero so any previously existing discrepancies did not occur on your watch.
At least you now know that sexual harassment claims are a much higher priority than anything weapons related. Just in case you wondered.
I love retirement. "Management" is just a bad memory.
Good luck.
A couple of thoughts. NRA police training section might have some ideas for you so call them and pick their brains.
Years ago I took a S&W class on "firearms program management". Not bad. I *might* still have the notes and if you get totally desperate PM me and I will see what I have. Fortunately (or not) my agency had procedures in place and at least there was a framework to work with.
The Instructor for that class was a Bert DuVernay, as I recall, and I think he is still lurking around S&W somewhere. Might be worth a shot.
Sounds like anything you do will be an improvement.
I would definitely get it documented that you have started at zero so any previously existing discrepancies did not occur on your watch.
At least you now know that sexual harassment claims are a much higher priority than anything weapons related. Just in case you wondered.
I love retirement. "Management" is just a bad memory.
Good luck.
entropy
Member
Record serials and detailed accounts of each weapons condition, do a thurough check of each weapon, record any work you do, and where, when, why, etc. any work is sent offsite. Also inventory tools and equipment. These things will tend to 'walk' when "new meat" takes over an Arms Room unless you do.
I 'inherited' a similar situation when I took over my units' Arms Room in the Army. (There were some records, but they were maddeningly incomplete.)
I 'inherited' a similar situation when I took over my units' Arms Room in the Army. (There were some records, but they were maddeningly incomplete.)
Definitely!
Jim Watson
Member
Does your outfit standardize on one brand of firearm?
If so, I bet they could offer some support to a good agency customer. I cannot imagine there are not adequate forms available for recordkeeping, no need to invent the wheel if you can walk as far as the Ford lot.
If so, I bet they could offer some support to a good agency customer. I cannot imagine there are not adequate forms available for recordkeeping, no need to invent the wheel if you can walk as far as the Ford lot.
Futuristic
Member
Not Advice, but Guidance
Well, I'm not an expert, but I know one place you can find them:
http://www.10-8Forums.com
Register there (LEO credentials needed) and ask and you should get all the help you need. They have previously come through for all sorts of other Firearms Policy needs, and I know there are at least a few Armorers who hang out there from decent size Departments.
You might also try the Forums at http://officer.com
Futuristic
Well, I'm not an expert, but I know one place you can find them:
http://www.10-8Forums.com
Register there (LEO credentials needed) and ask and you should get all the help you need. They have previously come through for all sorts of other Firearms Policy needs, and I know there are at least a few Armorers who hang out there from decent size Departments.
You might also try the Forums at http://officer.com
Futuristic
Steel Talon
Member
Hello Tier,
1st. check your Dept/unit policies to get everything into compliance with them.
*Seperate your qualification firearms from your SRT, Chase and Transport weapons.
*Make sure weapons are Armory #'d and crossed to thier serial #'s.
*Make sure all cuffs,CS,baton etc etc are numbered and acct. for.
*Make sure all oridinance is counted and tracked.
*When the firearms instructors come to obtain range materials for staff qualifications make sure they return all empty/spent cases 1 for 1 accountability this will keep all 9out of hot water.
*Make sure you have a check in place to view staff firearm certification cards before issuing duty weapons .Should be part of you in/out armory log. This will keep you out of hot water. Actually that log should reflect alot of information. Weapon # and type, reason (transport etc.) Ammo out/in Staff member, badge #, unit etc.
*make sure you have a file cabinet or two to maintain all records you are responsible for
*Get with your purchase agent and your warehouse (recieving) staff and ckeck thier records to your armory inventory make sure nothing is missing if ther is then CYA with reports to your chain.
As a Chief of Security part of my responsibilities involved complex Armories.
Peace
Steel Talon
1st. check your Dept/unit policies to get everything into compliance with them.
*Seperate your qualification firearms from your SRT, Chase and Transport weapons.
*Make sure weapons are Armory #'d and crossed to thier serial #'s.
*Make sure all cuffs,CS,baton etc etc are numbered and acct. for.
*Make sure all oridinance is counted and tracked.
*When the firearms instructors come to obtain range materials for staff qualifications make sure they return all empty/spent cases 1 for 1 accountability this will keep all 9out of hot water.
*Make sure you have a check in place to view staff firearm certification cards before issuing duty weapons .Should be part of you in/out armory log. This will keep you out of hot water. Actually that log should reflect alot of information. Weapon # and type, reason (transport etc.) Ammo out/in Staff member, badge #, unit etc.
*make sure you have a file cabinet or two to maintain all records you are responsible for
*Get with your purchase agent and your warehouse (recieving) staff and ckeck thier records to your armory inventory make sure nothing is missing if ther is then CYA with reports to your chain.
As a Chief of Security part of my responsibilities involved complex Armories.
Peace
Steel Talon
Good luck, buddy! I inherited a mess when I took over our unit's Arms Room.
Luckily, I had a copy of the regs to get me on the straight & narrow.
I'd suggest that you enquire about any regs you might fall under and be sure you comply with those, first & foremost: city/state/whatever.
If nothing like that exists, you could do worse than follow US Army regs, which you can likely download from the web for arms room maint as well as physical security (190-11, if memory serves).
What your're doing right now is good (asking around), but don't discount the power of common sense and a spreadsheet like MS Excel.
Common sense dictates that your first duty is security accountability: what do you have, where is it, how can you show where it is if not in your meathooks.
Luckily, I had a copy of the regs to get me on the straight & narrow.
I'd suggest that you enquire about any regs you might fall under and be sure you comply with those, first & foremost: city/state/whatever.
If nothing like that exists, you could do worse than follow US Army regs, which you can likely download from the web for arms room maint as well as physical security (190-11, if memory serves).
What your're doing right now is good (asking around), but don't discount the power of common sense and a spreadsheet like MS Excel.
Common sense dictates that your first duty is security accountability: what do you have, where is it, how can you show where it is if not in your meathooks.
Something I would also consider would be to take pictures of every firearm.
Digital cameras are cheap (I bet you already have one) and storage is cheap (I mean what does a 500 GB HD cost, like $200?) I am sure you could link your spreadsheet to the pictures or have everything in some sort of secure website. I'm not an IT guy, but I bet the IT guy at your work could set you up with something. My 2 cents...
Digital cameras are cheap (I bet you already have one) and storage is cheap (I mean what does a 500 GB HD cost, like $200?) I am sure you could link your spreadsheet to the pictures or have everything in some sort of secure website. I'm not an IT guy, but I bet the IT guy at your work could set you up with something. My 2 cents...
Thanks guys,
Good advice, thank you. I intend to do a complete inventory of all weapons, ammo, tools and equipment. I will start records for all weapons, do a weapons inspection and test fire everything and keep records of everything I do. I will submit a DETAILED report of what I find or do not find. CYA is good to do.
Good advice, thank you. I intend to do a complete inventory of all weapons, ammo, tools and equipment. I will start records for all weapons, do a weapons inspection and test fire everything and keep records of everything I do. I will submit a DETAILED report of what I find or do not find. CYA is good to do.
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