As a gunowner, I would get an RFID chip implant if...

[Lennyjoe]

What was it that was discovered in the last couple of years - that the army was surreptiously testing vaccines on troops

You got a link to the story?

And you think they would tell you beforehand?

Yea, I do. Why, don't you?

 

[LAK]

The Fabulousfink

The records kept by those companies are confidential and they have strict oversight and can suffer great penalties for misuse.

In addition to what Bartholomew Roberts said; intelligence agencies have been using front companies for a very long time.

--------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[Thin Black Line]

Not all children are born in a hospital.

Most are here in the US and right after the baby comes out the nurse
pushes the "send" button for the social security number.

As a parent you're given a letter afterward informing you the number
for your baby has been applied for....

 

[progunner1957]

No, thanks!!

92.93% voted N.F. way - good! I will not be "chipped" under any circumstances, for any reason. I am a human being, not a product, a piece of property or a head of livestock to be tracked.

 

[jrou111]

Yeah....I'm ..... umm... a hemophiliac...


That's the ticket.

 

[Thin Black Line]

First they came for the cows.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1761718,00.html

US privacy campaigners fear mark of the beast

James Sturcke
Wednesday April 26, 2006

A decision by the Bush administration to proceed with what is believed to be the largest radio frequency tagging programme in history has triggered protests from US privacy campaigners.

The US department of agriculture (USDA) wants to keep track of all livestock production and movements in what it claims is an attempt to improve the traceability of disease outbreaks.

By 2009, 40m cattle will have been tagged, and the scheme is to be extended to include the billions of chickens and other animals farmed every year in the US.

But campaigners are outraged that all agricultural producers, including smallholder farmers, are being pressured into registering their details when the national animal identification system (Nais) becomes fully operational in 2009. They also fear that the technology earmarked for the scheme could be used on people.

"This is the biggest scheme of its kind," said Katherine Albrecht, a consumer privacy expert. "They say it is aimed at tracking animal disease outbreaks, but I have had conversations with public health officials where they have been looking forward to a time when the spread of human diseases could also be monitored in this way."

Although the USDA insists the programme is "technology neutral", and various schemes, such as retina scans and DNA testing, could be used in it, campaigners believe radio frequency identification (RFID) will predominate. RFID involves a chip that is scanned by a reader in a way similar to the operation of the Oyster card ticket system on the London underground. Firms tracking components and stock as they move around the world are increasingly using the technology, but it has caused alarm among civil liberty campaigners, who believe it will also enable organisations to monitor the movement of people.

"It raises issues not just about the movement of products but about watching people's lives," Ms Albrecht said. "We are not a long way off from people beginning to demand publicly that systems be used on humans."

"I know that many people believe this is the best way to trace animal diseases. However, there are other people with alternative agendas. They are not talking or thinking enough about the long-term impact or the bigger picture: if you do it to animal diseases, the next step is humans. I believe we are on the verge of the next step." She cited as evidence the decision last year by a former US health secretary, Tommy Thompson, to join the board of Verichip, a Florida-based firm that makes human RFID tags.

Soon after taking the job, Mr Thompson announced he would have a rice-sized VeriChip RFID tag implanted under his skin. The firm's website states that the technology could have medical applications, with paramedics instantly able to call up the records of unconscious, but tagged patients. Earlier this month, the US agriculture secretary, Mike Johanns, announced the Nais implementation plan.

"Developing an effective animal identification system has been a high priority for USDA, and we've made significant strides towards achieving a comprehensive US system," he said. He announced that the plan "set an aggressive timeline for ensuring full implementation of the Nais by 2009".

The animal-tracking databases will record and store animal movements, providing animal health officials with data they will use in fighting outbreaks of livestock disease. Their aim is to identify the origins of an outbreak within 48 hours.

The plan involves registering properties where farm animals are kept, initially on a voluntary basis. However, the USDA says it "may move toward a requirement for mandatory premises and animal identification for all species included in the system". Plans are currently being developed for cattle, swine, sheep, goats, horses, poultry, bison, llamas and alpacas, among other animals, to be tagged.

Around 35m cattle and 8bn poultry are slaughtered in the US every year. Under the scheme, some animals would need individual tags while others would be tagged as a group. The plans have triggered protests from small farmers across the US, who have used a website to voice their fears of invasions of privacy, increased food prices and concentration of power in the hands of large producers.

 

[Lupinus]

I'm not Christian so the mark of the beast thing doesn't really apply to me. But my answer still remains no. I'm not an animal, and I promiss that anyone trying to inject me with such a thing will indeed be going to the great beyond with me if they so decide to press the issue that far. There are a lot of things people say from my cold dead hands for when they really wouldn't take it that far, I assure you, this is one area where I most certianly will take it that far.

 

[M249MachineGun]

Only if it gave me super-powers like all the people with implanted cybernetics in the movies.

Can I be the Master Chief?
Motoko Kusanagi?

Can I have sub-machine guns implanted in my arms so I don't have to worry about "printing" or "getting made" anymore?

Any other option is out of the question. Hell no!

 

[joneb]

The mark of the beast, whether you believe it or not it is what it is. Why has the Bible and Christainity been under attack in this country Sometimes the truth is so obvious that you'll never see it comming

 

[brerrabbit]

I would only accept a chip if the all the guys coming to plant it in me laid down on their backs and showed all holes in their fronts.

Trouble with the rfid tags, as they are now, they are so easy to spoof. I am not even a player and I can think of a few ways to scam the system.

 

[Diamondback6]

Spoof, heck. Any number of eggheads know how to build RFID readers, it's just a matter of time 'til someone combines that with a wearable computer and starts intercepting everyone's RFID-tag data.

Heck, I know of "Geek My (Whatever)" types who've already been having themselves chipped to the max and their houses and vehicles wired up for RFID access. Casa Gates up in Redmond uses something similar, but at least there it's confined to buttons or lapel pin-type things.

 

[John-Melb]

How about - you can put your RFID chip in me after I've put my RFID chip in you, Yes, I know my RFID chips look an awful like .303 bullets, but that's just a coincidence.

 

[Thin Black Line]

This poll is now disturbing

Nearly 8% on THR would still take the chip. There would probably be higher
*acceptance* of getting chipped among the general US population, despite
a high rate, though mostly nominal rather than practical, of their belief in
Christianity.

Very disturbing indeed given that even smaller percentages of a country's
population as represented in a particular political party have been able to
seize and hold power, even by force if necessary.

 

[PeteRR]

I won't let them put one in my car, let alone me.

 

[tellner]

Mark of the Beast?

Nah. Far as I'm concerned Christian Doctrine is kind of irrelevant.

But moral and political stuff? Yeah. Gods below, yes. This isn't "the beginning of Big Brother". We passed that years ago. What we are in now is a full blown surveillance state beyond the wildest wetdreams of Stalin or Himmler. GPS chipping is near. Universal GPS chipping is probably within the next five to ten years.

One of the scariest things is that the Christian Right has signed off on it. Anything that helps the Republicans demolish liberty and open our innermost secrets is fine with them, because the Party caters to them. Not all Christians. Not even the old-style Conservative ones. But the A.L.L., Oppenheimer Institute, Dispensationalist types who want their form of Calivinist fascism imposed on the continent and the world.

In days past the Church stood up for people's rights a lot of the time. The Southern Baptists used to be the strongest proponents of church-state separation and religious rights for all. Boy, has that changed.

I'm not saying the Democrats are blameless. Democratic presidents have increased the power of the presidency. For the last six years they have baaaed and gone along with whatever the Administration demands. But it really has gotten worse faster under Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, Gonzales and the rest of the crew.

I think part of it is the President's background. Seriously. He went to Business School at a time when a very rigid "Never back down, never change course" management philosophy was in place. All of his professional life has involved being in complete control of something. Say what you will about professional politics. A good career politician understands that you have to give and take, compromise and have a working relationship with people you don't agree with. The CEO "I'm the Decider" philosophy leads to totalitarian impulses in governance. When that is combined with the tools of modern surveillance and coercion the danger is hideous.

To the imperial sort of CEO any form of dissent is disloyalty and destructive to the company. All means must be used to root it out. Opposition to the dictates of the head office are unthinkable.

And that's where we find ourselves.

 

[mountainclmbr]

Only if THR moderators required it to prevent locking posts that are anti-communist.

 

[Korimyr the Rat]

I'd be happy to get one. Ain't got nothing to fear from it as long as I'm law-abiding-- and when the time comes not to be, it ain't nothing I couldn't fix with a switchblade or a roll of tinfoil.

Hell, get myself an IV shunt and I can decide to be chipped or not chipped as suits my activities.

 

[tellner]

It won't be so easy when you need your chip to collect social security, get a job, interact with your bank, get a driver's license, maybe even start your car, buy a gun, get prescriptions filled, get married or any of a number of other things.

The problem with really bad law is that it lessens respect for all law. Take a look at this discussion. Normally law-abiding people, including yours truly, are trying to figure out how they will break the law. If that one, why not others?

No, the thing to do is fight this sort of thing from the beginning. The Electronic Freedom Foundation (http://www.eff.org), The Electronic Privacy Information Center (http://www.epic.org), and the much-maligned ACLU (http://www.aclu.org) are all good places to start. Give money to them while you still can

 

[rhubarb]

What was it that was discovered in the last couple of years - that the army was surreptiously testing vaccines on troops

You got a link to the story?

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/index.cfm/Page/Article/ID/7151
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/046504400X/104-4433824-2171968?v=glance&n=283155

According to Matsumoto's book, the Army tried an experimental super-duper anthrax vaccine on some of the troops when vaccinating those that would be serving in Bush's War on Iraq I.

Quote:
And you think they would tell you beforehand?

Yea, I do. Why, don't you?

I distrust government in general. I particularly distrust Commander in Chief Bush and his anti-Liberty minions. They don't see any limit on what they can do. They have either no Morality or a twisted sense of Morality within themselves and they ignore the Constitution. No, I think that if they so wished, the Administration would come up with a legal ruling by Bush's whipping boy Gonzales, an executive order, an order from the Joint Chiefs and/or whatever else they wished and start chipping our soldiers. "Just a little pin-prick. It's a vaccine against you getting lost."

"This is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle becomes a precedent for a second; that second for a third; and so on, till the bulk of society is reduced to mere automatons of misery, to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering..." - Thomas Jefferson

 

[CannonFodder]

I'd give them two options:
Anyone desiring to implant such a chip into me may either
A) kiss my hairy white butt
or
B) See if they can perform an admirable re-enactment of the Lewinsky affair.

Both are legitimate courses of action and easily accomplished. It really is their own personal preference.

 

[Meplat]

I firmly believe that chipping (or at least some technology MUCH like it) is described very well in the book of Revelation. The mark of the Beast will be worn (or implanted) into the right hand or forehead of everyone who accepts it in exchange for alligiance to the Beast - coincidently rejecting Jesus Christ at the same time.

Ergo, implants placed into an individual without that individual's knowledge or placed into a newborn before that newborn reached the age of accountablity could not meet the criteria for the mark. Parental acceptance on the behalf of the newborn would not meet the criteria either. "For let it from this day forth not be said that the fathers eat sour grapes and the child's teeth are set on edge." Such implants would, however, be the last log (as opposed) to straw that breaks a free man's back. To have it foisted upon him would be grounds for a free man to strike back hard and fast.

If it should turn out to be the mark, would there be a high rate of acceptance?

Very high. Starving to death is not the most pleasant way to go.

Then again, being eaten alive by lions wasn't very pleasant either, I am sure. Yet there were those who refused to deny Christ in order to avoid the teeth of the cats. Personally, I think on their day, they gained all.

Either way, though, I don't let it concern me much. If it's not the mark of the Beast, and merely one more (final for me) act of a repressive government, then they had better hope it works at well below body tempreture. Then again, they won't have much fun tracking my remains anyway.

If it IS the mark, then I have plans to be elsewhere, as described in Luke 21:36.

 

[Thin Black Line]

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/index.cfm/Page/Article/ID/7151

Good well-documented article with a link to COL Hackworth.

This country suffered a major loss among its TRUE defenders of Liberty
when he died.

I took the Anthrax opt-OUT option, but suffered cellulitis from a different
mandatory vaccine. I was deployed into Kuwait and then Iraq while on
antibiotics for this. I was quite lucky not to pick up another bug since this
was my first time in the Middle East. Whew......

 

[AJ Dual]

The whole RFID thing is way overblown IMO. Just like we all know how the media is so pathetically ignorant on firearm/gun issues, most people don't understand RFID, either.

Now I'm no apologist for RFID technology, the idea of mandating the chips be inserted in people as a form of ID is, ahh... repugnant, to say the least.

However, RFID only works at a distance of a few inches or at best a few feet. It's also completely passive, meaning it does not transmit any signal or information unless it's brought into an active reading field. The chip has a tiny pickup coil antenna what powers it temporarily when it's suspended in a radio field, it then transmits its unique serial number back to the reader, where it is looked up in a database.

The most common examples in use of the technology today are "Chipped" pets, for ID and recovery purposes, the Mobile gas station "SpeedPass" that lets you pay your bills with the little key-ring fob automatically, and the corporate security cards where you just wave it near the little box on the wall by the door you wish to unlock.

RFID, is NOT GPS (Despite the fact places like Target and Wal-Mart sell it, most people don't even understand "GPS" either.), and no, you can't be tracked by satellite…

RFID, is NOT a "homing beacon", no one can wave an antenna around and find you like a collared bear in a wildlife documentary…

RFID, IS defeatable. It is insanely easy to make a coil using parts from a disposable camera flash that will fry any RFID chips inside it into permanent inoperability. Tin-foil hat jokes aside, you can also shield it too...

Frankly, as a form of personal identification, RFID is going to be a flash in the pan. Things like Facial Recognition, Gait Analysis, and Voiceprint technology have been undergoing constant improvement, and unlike RFID, these things CAN AND DO WORK AT A DISTANCE with cameras or sensitive microphones. Facial recognition, for instance, is getting so advanced that things like contorting your facial expressions, wearing glasses or a beard won't defeat it anymore. The combination of facial musculature, bone structure and the proportions of the face can be measured so subtly that anything save a full face mask can't defeat the most advanced types anymore, combine that with voice recognition and gait analysis, and security cameras, or traffic cameras, soon "Big Brother" will have the ability to identify you on the street with 99% accuracy within hundreds of feet, if not thousands.

You'll WISH you had an RFID chip in your hand. At least then you'd know when you were being required to stick your hand over the reader, or the powers that be "wanded" you to read it.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

RFID chips would be like your Mac or PC processor:
obsolete as some as you take it home.

 

[Thin Black Line]

RFID Technology Application and Equipment Updates

From an FDA search:

Since each item has a unique identity, each item can be tracked to and from each trusted partner. Because this identity is encoded in a bar code, or an RFID tag, tracking is extremely reliable at very high speed and, therefore, at very low cost.

In addition to supply chain tracking our printers and supplies print authenticable [ph] identities, including state driver's licenses, airline boarding passes, event tickets, consumer electronics, computer software licenses and tax stamps. Custom materials, holographic films, magnetic strips, covert marks, and invisible bar codes are widely used by our customers, but discretely implemented.

But these anti counterfeit technologies are worthless without secure operational methods, including hiring practices, access control, and controlled access to information.

<snip>

Trading an authenticable identity and tracking it through the supply chain is proven technology and Zebra is an experienced and trusted advisor. Over 90 percent of the Fortune 500, uses Zebra products in over 90 countries throughout the world.

Thank you for this opportunity to work with your important issue. More detailed information and specific comments on the interim report will be submitted to the docket.

(related links to this company
http://www.zebracard.com/id/card/na/en/index/industries/applications/driver_licensing.html
http://www.zebracard.com/id/card/na/en/index/industries/applications/national_id.html
http://www.zebracard.com/id/card/na/en/index/industries/applications/student_identification.html

LOL, also used for CCW licenses:
http://www.zebracard.com/id/card/na..._.DownloadFile.File.tmp/236-WoodCounty_tb.pdf

Well, off to different products at the same conference:

<snip>

Anyway, briefly, we're an RFID. Basically, this is an RF tag, 96 bytes. This is an RF tag, more than 96 bytes. We're shipping right now in quantity under a penny, and we use overtly, covertly, as the slide shows some of our overt. Covert applications, we'll be happy to talk privately with anyone.

If you want to see the RF tags in operation, please go to the show room there. We have it in paper, we have it in labels, special packaging. We demonstrate that we can read an RF signature on a box 10 feet away or we can read 10 millimeters away, depending on what the requirement of the client is.

It is RF. We don't use a chip. It's in the paper, as you can see here. We embed our resonators in paper, and when we illuminate the paper with low energy, you get a signature back. The signature is now interpreted as a number. The number remains as part of the database. We are deployed. We're in somewhere between 50- and 100 million items a year, more covertly.

<snip>

Other technology that also started from authentication, this is our DMID, it's digital magnetic ID, it's a low-cost chipless RFID. It started for authentifiber [ph], which is a glass-coated microfiber, that as it creates a signature that can embed it in the box or under an aluminum cap and can be read out of the box. So if you would like to authenticate any product, you don't have to open the package, you can read it out.

Taking it a little farther, we make it even carrying information. You can read it out of the shipping container four centimeter, which is one and three-quarter of an inch deep and it carries multiplication of 20/40 and so on.

Some other relative comments at a macro level:

http://www.hhs.gov/news/speech/2006/060411.html

Things will be different in the future. She will have more information, more choices, and more control.

For example, she may decide to register to be part of a national genetic profile registry that stores medical histories, genetic information, and family history data. The database would knit family medical histories together for many generations on both sides of the young woman's family.

By running her genetic data against the entire database, the young woman's doctor will be able to rule out hundreds of different disorders that could have caused the death of her family members, and find the true cause of the disease—an abnormal protein that causes clots to form in the heart and brain.

Imagine her sitting at her desk one afternoon and receiving an email from her doctor explaining that a new drug is now available for experimental testing against that abnormal protein. Imagine her interest upon learning that she is a great candidate for the study.

"Will it take much time?" she asks. Her doctor explains that the test is done by implanting a sensor under her skin, which transmits testing information using a wireless signal to her desktop computer, which in turn updates her medical record and the clinician doing the research. That's a new era in patient-centered care.


http://www.hhs.gov/news/speech/2006/060425.html

I see a healthcare system that can begin to prepare for emergencies as a part of their everyday business. I see a place where—a time—in New Orleans where you can walk into a community health center in your neighborhood and get basic treatment and have an electronic medical record so that if the day comes that you have to go to the hospital, when you show up there, they know who you are and what happened at the community health center and, likewise, if you're in the hospital—if you're at the clinic, they know what happened at the hospital.


http://www.hhs.gov/news/speech/2006/060314.html

The third initiative is Health Information Technology. As first steps toward full electronic health records, insurers, administrators, and providers will be asked to use an interoperable electronic registration system that will do away with the medical clipboard as we know it.

How many times have we walked into a clinic or a doctor's office or any other place where health care is handled and we write down our name, our address, our phone number, our insurance number, and other pieces of information, not once but several different times? Now in the information age, there ought to be a way to improve that.

With Payer Power, we will move forward collectively to ask those who are insurers and providers to adopt standards that are being developed over the course of time. It will be an important step forward.


http://www.hhs.gov/news/speech/2005/051007.html

This group is about progress: serious, measurable, urgent progress toward meeting the President’s goal of electronic health records being available to Americans, and the power of electronic health records to make the health care system patient-centered and safer. It’s about producing higher quality, lower cost health care, with fewer mistakes and less hassle.

Why is this group different than any of the hundreds of others who regularly gather under different banners and acronyms for the same purpose? Spoken bluntly, the answer is market power.

Around this table sits representatives of the federal and state agencies that pay for and regulate a major piece of the $1.7 trillion dollars a year spent on health care in America. For many years, health care providers, payers, patients and governments at all levels have dealt with the dilemma of how a segment of society, as diverse and fragmented as this one, could reach in a free market system the conclusions necessary to accomplish interoperability. My conclusion: the federal government has to lead by using its market power and capacity to convene. We need to lead with our feet.

For that reason it is highly significant that the Departments of Veterans Affairs, Defense, Commerce and Treasury, as well as the Office of Personnel Management, and at HHS, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and -- essentially -- the United States Public Health Service community are at this table with a shared commitment to unify around breakthroughs that can give us near-term results and an architecture, standards, certification process that can continue giving results far into the future. Collectively we represent more than 40 percent of the market; and when more than 40 percent of a market acts in unison, it moves the market. The question is, will it move in the right way?

<snip>

Another important federal advisory group is the President’s Information Technology Advisory Committee, or, in the Washington tradition, something we call PITAC. PITAC too can be helpful in supporting our work and we will use them.

We need to engage the broad network of people connected to health IT standards, certification and privacy/security protection. Yesterday, I was pleased to announce that the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has contracted with three partners to carry out the tasks of standards harmonization, technology certification and security and privacy enhancements. These partners -- the Health Information Technology Standards Panel (HITSP), the Certification Commission for Health Information Technology (CCHIT), and the Health Information Security and Privacy Collaboration (HISPC) -- provide the foundation for our market-driven strategy for advancing interoperability and accelerating adoption. Very soon we will also announce the consortia which will develop prototypes for nationwide health information network architecture.

<snip>

Earlier I indicated that it was market power that distinguishes the Community's capacity to move things forward from other efforts. The truth of that is overshadowed by another market factor. We have to produce value quickly. The market will jump behind our effort only if we're making progress that is visible and evident. If we are to lead toward a vision of interoperability, we have to make decisions faster than the market does.

I am committed to decisions that give us early and fast progress, but also progress that makes real changes and that lasts. To do this, we need a means for organizing ourselves and structuring our work. When I spoke to each of you on the phone about serving on the Community, I mentioned that we would meet every four to six weeks. This is an aggressive schedule, but one that I feel matches the challenges and opportunities before us.

Our immediate task is to identify specific breakthrough projects -- that is, important use cases that can begin to lay the foundation for adoption and interoperability.