ATF Confiscating Machine Guns

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Bubbles

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
3,148
Location
Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia
From Friend just had MAC BAR confiscated:

I have a good friend that bought a BAR manufactured by Military Armament Corporation about 4 years ago. The story was that the gun was built by MAC years ago when they were doing guns. He figured it was a legit gun and paid slightly less than an original gun. I remember it being a good price for a shooter at the time he bought it. Anyway ATF shows up today and confiscates it as it was once a MAC 10 that was turned in to a BAR. The original seller is now dead. Is there any recourse? What can be done? Is he screwed? I know there was a thread about this a few weeks ago but I never put 2 and 2 together until I was told about it.
Click to expand...

The C2 who did it: http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsgarchive.cgi?read=657729

I feel sorry for the folks who have these now, as ownership has changed hands half a dozen or more times since the conversions, prior owners have passed away, etc. Looks like their only recourse is to sue the C2 mfr who did the conversion.
 
I'd like to know how you turn a mac 10 into a BAR. This sounds like the scam springfield got nailed for, turning Mac 10 into M-60s. They were just moving the old serial number to a new gun. Not cool.
 
This whole machine gun ban is just RIDICULOUS:(

Was the new BAR a semi-auto to begin with, was the MAC converted to ATF specs, or was it left full auto?
 
I feel sorry for the folks who have these now,...
Click to expand...

No sympathy here. I agree the ban is unconstitutional, but until the law is changed anyone who flouts it has to be ready to accept the consequences. Caveat emptor!

Full story here.
 
Rachen:
Either they made it, or they found an unregistered one. There's supposedly several M240s & 1919s that were 'manufactured' the same way and the ATF is hunting them down.

Kharn
 
The only semi BAR design the ATF has ever approved is from Ohio Ornance.

I can't even imagine what a MAC receiver would look like trying to impersonate a BAR.

My question would not be "is it legal" but "why would you want such a piece of crap".

That whole thread makes no sense. Was it a BAR but the Form 3 said MAC-10? Was it a MAC-10 converted to look like a BAR?

At this point the information is so vague it is beginning to smell like a BS story....
 
It was an illegally manufactured BAR (full auto) with the MAC-10 information engraved on it. The buyer was led to believe it was some sort of limited run by the same company that made MAC-10s.

Basically, they made a new MG and put the old (registered) MG information onto it. Entirely illegal.
 
Gator, this is dealers/manufacturers screwing people over. The people pulling the trick need to be keel hauled, but there's plenty of sympathy for the poor fool who bought the gun.
 
How come we never hear "molon labe" in machine gun threads? I think it's because when it comes right down to it, effectively zero americans will fight back when their gun is confiscated.
 
:scrutiny:

Turned a MAC 10 into a BAR???

Um, yeah.

Reminds me of the mad scientist who lived down the street when I was a young lad.

Seems he turned a teacup poodle into a rottweiler.

I always thought that was stretching things just a bit much.

:cool:
 
That's like putting the VIN number from your Yugo onto a stolen Corvette
Click to expand...

And frankly anyone that would buy such a thing pretty much has no leg to stand on legally I'd think. Stupid is as stupid does.....
 
The easy way to defend yourself against this is to see the current Form4 and check to see if the listed manufacturer ever made that type of weapon (IE: SWD never made M240s, but they made Macs), and check hi-res photos of the serial number area to make sure its part of the reciever and not just welded on.

Gunnerpalace:
Almost, they cut out the serial number section of the MAC and weld it onto the more valuable MG's reciever and the Mac's reciever is cut into scrap metal. The question is, how do they get the ATF to accept the next Form4 that lists the new weapon name/configuration? They're supposed to watch for this kind of thing and going from a 4", 9mm Mac to a 20", 30-06 BAR should raise some questions...

And this practice is highly illegal, you're not allowed to remove the serial number, even if you replace it with an identical one. For example, the registered HKs that are converted to beltfed (SN right where the belt feeds into the weapon), the smith will partially cut the reciever and bend the serial number portion until its on top of where the belt will enter. Once in place, the serial number portion will be reinforced/secured by a bead of weld between it and the nearest section of the reciever.

Kharn
 
And frankly anyone that would buy such a thing pretty much has no leg to stand on legally I'd think. Stupid is as stupid does.....
Click to expand...

The easy way to defend yourself against this is to see the current Form4 and check to see if the listed manufacturer ever made that type of weapon (IE: SWD never made M240s, but they made Macs), and check hi-res photos of the serial number area to make sure its part of the reciever and not just welded on.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's two good reasons for not feeling sorry the owners. I don't think the ATF is prosecuting anyone over this, just confiscating the weapons; that seems an appropriate penalty for being so stupid/greedy.
 
That's like putting the VIN number from your Yugo onto a stolen Corvette
Click to expand...
Or like building new cars and skipping out on the emissions and safety by putting old VINs on them, the same thing Boyd Coddington got nailed for.
 
how so? by enforcing the laws they were created to enforce?
Click to expand...

If one deems those laws to be ridiculous, this is certainly a respectable stance.

I suppose the genuinely thuggish antics they sometimes resort to are outside the purview of this thread.
 
So fallowing orders is a bad thing to do?

I don't know about you, but from my exp as both an officer in the miltary and a employer thats a great way to make your life a living hell.


I deem the CA gross polluter laws to be ridiculous, does that mean as a gross polluter I should not fallow them? I should also call all CARB employees rogues for enforcing those laws.

Same "logic" diffrent subject.
 
On some HK's the fire control group is the papered MG and can be moved to different receivers. Would this have worked for the mac10 if the sear or fcg, not the receiver, was the papered part?
 
The ATF is ridiculous. They are rogue.
Click to expand...
Amen. They operate 100% outside the constitution. They don't even have a pretense of legality. They violate our rights, they violate state's rights, and they are a threat to our physical safety as well as our property. I wish the "molon labe" crowd backed up their words once in a while. We'd all be better off.
 
Now the ATF has done some shameful crap. The last few episodes declaring BROKEN firearms full auto, then arresting and prosecuting the poor guy who owns the broken gun are the height of stupidity.

The crap pulled by their technical branch is the stuff of legend. They do some very seedy things to make a gun double and call it a machine gun. The fact that they have no written standards and do not video tape the alleged malfunction for court is appalling.

The fact juries believe this is even more amazing and is a reflection on the decline in mental power of the average american.

The one time I had to deal with them it was because of something similar. The class 2 builder I dealt with had not properly filed paperwork before he started selling product, then when confronted refused to comply. They dropped the hammer on him and in turn all of his customers got to turn in their recievers.

The ATF agent we dealth with was a nice enough guy but he was totally clueless. He didn't have any knowledge about anything related to guns. I know 8y/o kids who know more about guns, is was sad to see a brach of law enforcement so uninformed about what they are supposed to be regulating.

All that being said, they had every right to take that particular gun off the market. If they would fix the registry and have periodic amnesty periods as the 1968 gun control act intended crap like this would not happen.
 
Last edited:
No sympathy here. I agree the ban is unconstitutional, but until the law is changed anyone who flouts it has to be ready to accept the consequences.
Click to expand...

You do realize some of these have changed hands half a dozen times or more since the C2 illegally converted them decades ago, and some of the intermediate owners have died and their estates were settled years ago, so there's not even civil recourse for the purchasers unless they go after the C2? And sure, caveat emptor, except how many folks are really clued in these days as to who made what type of firearm, and when?

ETA: I agree that the NFA laws need to be repealed. Until they are, anyone violating them for personal gain needs to go to Club Fed for a long time.
 
Well, we all love references to the noble experiment.

Alcohol was banned via a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT. That's 2/3 of a legislature voting in favor to get it passed!

But, critical hint: it did not get repealed because people were obeying it.

Sorry if that isn't High Road guys, but it's a fact.

Same thing could be said about a certain public transit system making people with certain skin tones sit in the back of buses.

One day someone doesn't feel like walking all the way to the back of a bus, and . . .
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

P
  • Locked
The ATF seeks retribution against a manufacturer for testifying in court
Replies
24
Views
2K
Waitone
W
S
  • Locked
Update On New Orleans Cops Gun Confiscations
2 3 4
Replies
80
Views
6K
Steve Raacke
S
K
  • Locked
Finding a gun's history?
Replies
11
Views
553
America_without_liberals
A
D
  • Locked
ATF raid in CT
2
Replies
43
Views
3K
danprkr
D
B
  • Locked
Guns melted into rebar
2
Replies
43
Views
2K
Harley Quinn
H
Back
Top