ATF Raid on Airport Exec in Ark, update

[Carl N. Brown]

Buying a gun from a ffl to turn around and sell it 24 hours later, multiple times, looks to me like a clear case of engaging in the business without a license. I would expect to be on the radar if I did that, just from reading the 288 page guide to federal firearms regulations.

 

[Balrog]

Seems like covering up the homeowner's security camera made the situation more risky, not less risky. If i heard noise at my front door, and looked at camera and saw it had been covered so I could not identify who was at the front door, I would not open the door. If the person outside then started trying to kick in the door, I would assume I was under attack.

 

[RickD427]

@RickD427

I'm not a lawyer and if I was ever caught up in any kind of situation like this, I would exercise my right to keep my mouth shut.

I would also let my lawyer do the talking, they would know the best way through all the legalese.

And that is good advice.

When serving warrants, I would often be requested by persons at the location to be allowed to telephone their attorneys. The law provided no right to such a consultation, so long as those persons were not interrogated at the scene, but I would normally permit such calls to be made. The attorneys would normally advise their clients not to make statements and not to interfere with the service of the warrant. Suspect interviews at the scene normally become problematic at trial. I wouldn't go there unless I had to. The advice "not to interfere" often made the warrant service a lot easier.

Quite often the attorney would request to speak with me. I'd normally respond with, "I'm busy right now serving a warrant, but would be happy to meet with you. Please call my office to schedule a time, and since this involves a case with the potential for criminal prosecution, please clear the meeting with the D.A.'s office. They'll need to have a representative present." None of those attorneys ever called to schedule.

 

[Pudge]

It is difficult to understand how concealing your identity by obscuring the Ring camera is an element of properly identifying yourself to the subject of a search warrant.

 

[dogtown tom]

Seems like covering up the homeowner's security camera made the situation more risky, not less risky. If i heard noise at my front door, and looked at camera and saw it had been covered so I could not identify who was at the front door, I would not open the door. If the person outside then started trying to kick in the door, I would assume I was under attack.

Me too.

It's a no win situation for all concerned.......and law enforcement should know that.

Home invasions by criminals occur and its not unknown that they pretend to be LE. You can buy or make your own "POLICE" or "FBI" raid jacket. The clean cut officers from Adam 12 and Dragnet disappeared decades ago. Now the officers might just have dreadlocks and more tattoos than a biker gang.
It's pretty much the reason we have guns, dogs, door locks, alarm systems and Ring cameras.


But LE may have bonafide reasons to seek a no knock arrest warrant to catch the subject asleep and unprepared to resist. For a search warrant to prevent the destruction of evidence.

In this case I've yet to see a reason for serving the search warrant while Malinowski was present and presumably asleep.
And dealing without an FFL............hand him a cease and desist letter telling him to spend the $200 and get his FFL or quit selling guns.

I know that the search warrant isn't the entire case, just enough evidence to present to a judge to sign off on a search warrant. I'm sure more will come out in the next year.

 

[dogtown tom]

It is difficult to understand how concealing your identity by obscuring the Ring camera is an element of properly identifying yourself to the subject of a search warrant.

You think police are required to show ID to the subject before commencing a raid?
I dont think thats a law. Usually its just announcing their presence. Afterward there is plenty of time to show badges, ID and badge numbers.

 

[goon]

It’s true that maybe the ATF was justified in doing something. Whether that something should have been kicking in a guy’s door in the wee hours and shooting him in the head is another question. We’re mostly just regular people here (with a few LEO’s commenting), yet we have already come up with half a dozen more reasonable ways to serve a warrant. If common folk can do this, we should expect the brightest minds in government to do this too. It’s not like the guy was going to flush a dozen illegal Glocks down the toilet. The evidence wasn’t going anywhere.

This isn’t only about the suspect: it’s also about how government should behave towards citizens.

 

[Pudge]

You think police are required to show ID to the subject before commencing a raid?
I dont think thats a law. Usually its just announcing their presence. Afterward there is plenty of time to show badges, ID and badge numbers.

They were supposed to be executing a search warrant, but you're right it sure did look like the ATF was conducting a raid.

 

[Elkins45]

Buying a gun from a ffl to turn around and sell it 24 hours later, multiple times, looks to me like a clear case of engaging in the business without a license. I would expect to be on the radar if I did that, just from reading the 288 page guide to federal firearms regulations.

Off topic, but I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen a non-FFL trade for a gun at a gun show and then turn right around and place it on his sales table with a price tag. I‘ve seen the same 7-8 guys doing it over and over for 20 years now. I continue to be amazed at every show when ATF doesn’t haul them out in handcuffs.

 

[reddog81]

Would you make that same argument on a drug raid? No.

That's one thing I don't understand about this case. Everyone is up in arms about this search even though they had a mountain of evidence against the guy and act like the ATF should have just invited him out for coffee and a civil discussion. That's not how it works. We shout and scream about enforcing existing gun laws rather than new ones, yet we shout and scream when the ATF enforces existing laws. If the search was on a gang banger all the sudden the police activities would make sense.

 

[Chuck R.]

They were supposed to be executing a search warrant, but you're right it sure did look like the ATF was conducting a raid.

There well could be some context that we don't know. It's obvious they'd been watching the guy for a while, so maybe that included social media accounts etc.. They could have had some legitimate concerns that justified how they went about this.

This is a double edged sword for the .GOV types. It's already been stated that 6 guns this guy sold were used in crimes. Now make one of those crimes a mass shooting at a school or church and see how differently everyone feels about their tactics.

 

[jmorris]

Why did they serve the warrant in the wee hours of the morning rather than in daytime or at some other location?

Tactics. Someone asleep is less likely to flee or fight than someone who is dressed and alert. Its also a show of force to invade their dwelling.

They could have picked up David Koresh at Super Shops in Waco (if he fought in public it would have endangered others) but they thought it would be neater to have a video of them storming the compound. Whomever leaked news of the raid, made that a rather bad idea though, got 4 agents killed that day and more than 80 others by the time it was over, 2 months later.

I bet the guy or gal that suggested they pick him up away from home didn't even get to say, "I told you so."

 

[Jim Watson]

I‘ve seen the same 7-8 guys doing it over and over for 20 years now. I continue to be amazed at every show when ATF doesn’t haul them out in handcuffs.

There was the Wheeler Dealer who was told by the Gun Show Patrol "We know what you are doing and it is not legal but we will not arrest you unless you do something blatant like sell a gun across the state line." We had one of those here, he had large gun show tables for years but was not prosecuted until he sold a gun to a minor from out of state and his parents squealed.

 

[dogtown tom]

Off topic, but I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen a non-FFL trade for a gun at a gun show and then turn right around and place it on his sales table with a price tag. I‘ve seen the same 7-8 guys doing it over and over for 20 years now. I continue to be amazed at every show when ATF doesn’t haul them out in handcuffs.

Me too.

I don't believe that there should be any gun laws because the Second Amendment means what it says. But until SCOTUS agrees, I'm going to abide by the law.

It does chap my hiney when I'm required to abide by those laws and others flaunt them. There were sellers that must have huge estates, because six times a year for ten years they were having guns on their tables marked "Estate Sale". And that was only at Dallas Market Hall. I know they sold at other shows as well. Being unlicensed means no paperwork, Thats a sales pitch for "We sell to criminals and others who can't pass a background check".

 

[dogtown tom]

That's one thing I don't understand about this case. Everyone is up in arms about this search even though they had a mountain of evidence against the guy and act like the ATF should have just invited him out for coffee and a civil discussion. That's not how it works. We shout and scream about enforcing existing gun laws rather than new ones, yet we shout and scream when the ATF enforces existing laws. If the search was on a gang banger all the sudden the police activities would make sense.

True.
But this wasn't a raid on a drug house where speed of entry is needed to prevent dope being flushed down the toilet or sink. Kinda difficult to flush a Glock, mush less a dozen or more. It was supposedly an upstanding member of the community who was dealing in guns without an FFL and apparently not known to be violent. They could have served a search warrant while he was at work. But hindsight is always 20/20.

But we don't know the entire story and likely never will. I'm wondering if he was involved in other activities that involved gangs, known criminals or drugs. Those might change how I view him as nonviolent.

 

[Jim Watson]

It's already been stated that 6 guns this guy sold were used in crimes.

There have been ample cases of manufacturers and dealers pilloried in the press and sued for selling "crime guns" but unless you are the Mob Armorer selling to KNOWN criminals, it is hard to see you at fault for the crime.

They could have served a search warrant while he was at work.

A "daytime warrant" defined as "after 6:00 AM" and "served" as a raid immediately after 6:00 was asking for trouble. If I had been in charge, I would have waited until he was just leaving or just returning.

 

[Pudge]

There well could be some context that we don't know. It's obvious they'd been watching the guy for a while, so maybe that included social media accounts etc.. They could have had some legitimate concerns that justified how they went about this.

This is a double edged sword for the .GOV types. It's already been stated that 6 guns this guy sold were used in crimes. Now make one of those crimes a mass shooting at a school or church and see how differently everyone feels about their tactics.

The crimes the firearms were used in don't change his (alleged) crime. They were executing a search warrant. The suspect did not need to be home for this, but the ATF made sure that he was. The ATF was not serving an arrest warrant, they could have waited for him to go to work and collected their evidence.

 

[Chuck R.]

The crimes the firearms were used in don't change his (alleged) crime. They were executing a search warrant. The suspect did not need to be home for this, but the ATF made sure that he was. The ATF was not serving an arrest warrant, they could have waited for him to go to work and collected their evidence.

That's not the point I'm getting at (or attempting to).

There's a certain amount of folks that don't perceive what he did as wrong, but that perception might change depending on how one of his "straw purchase" guns get's used.

I always find it amusing and to some extent sad when folks rush off to form conclusions without really knowing anything, other than a couple newspaper articles and some half baked conspiracy nonsense. IE a Clinton assassination????

There's a very good chance the ATF guys screwed up, but unless you've got some source that says that, I'll wait and see. Like I said there may well be a reason they decided to take the COA they did. IF not it will play out in the court system.

There's a reason why assume starts with the word ass..

There have been ample cases of manufacturers and dealers pilloried in the press and sued for selling "crime guns" but unless you are the Mob Armorer selling to KNOWN criminals, it is hard to see you at fault for the crime.

The possibility that this guy circumvented other folks using an FFL and thereby bypassing a background check will be one more data point used by politicians to attempt to close the gunshow "loophole".

It's one of the reasons that I only sell guns through an FFL, unless I know the buyer very, very well. We live in a litigation heavy society and I'm not willing to have my assets become a component in someone else retirement plan.

 

[Mk-211]

So what do we do about it when it's the ATF that's running guns?

Which turned into a huge failure and people died because of it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

I'm wondering if we'll ever see the body cam footage from this. Just getting more info will be the hardest part.

 

[Barmcd]

This is a tangent, but I am reading the affidavit and it says (emphasis added):

the term "dealer", as defined in Title i8 USC 921(a)(11) of theGCA, means (A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail; or (B)any person engaged in the business of repairing firearrns or ofmaking or fitting special barrels, stocks,or trigger mechanisms to firearms; or (C) any person who is a pawnbroker​

I had no idea gunsmiths are required to be an FFL. What's the rationale behind this?

​

​

I have never met a gunsmith that wasn't an FFL. I just figured they went together because manufacturers won't sell certain parts to anyone but a gunsmith and some of those parts require an FFL.

 

[Barmcd]

Argument for what exactly?

"IF" I were a police officer, disabling a video camera would be done before I ever knocked on the door. The advantage it gives to the person viewing is a disadvantage to the safety of the officers.
It's not suspicious and is standard practice on police forced entry.



Unlikely.
If the basis of "the raid" was lawful, then the likelihood of a civil suit or settlement is virtually zero.

I can't believe there is any question as to why they blocked the ring doorbell or the legality of that action. I'd think any agency serving a warrant would want to disable any surveillance capability of the target of an arrest or search warrant.

 

[Charlie98]

But we don't know the entire story and likely never will.

...and that's... really... what so much today boils down to.

 

[Ethan Verity]

Argument for what exactly?

"IF" I were a police officer, disabling a video camera would be done before I ever knocked on the door. The advantage it gives to the person viewing is a disadvantage to the safety of the officers.
It's not suspicious and is standard practice on police forced entry.



Unlikely.
If the basis of "the raid" was lawful, then the likelihood of a civil suit or settlement is virtually zero.

In what universe is it not suspicious when the person knocking on your front door has just disabled your security camera? I would be 110% suspicious if this happened to me.

 

[Boom Vang]

Tactics. Someone asleep is less likely to flee or fight than someone who is dressed and alert. Its also a show of force to invade their dwelling.

They could have picked up David Koresh at Super Shops in Waco (if he fought in public it would have endangered others) but they thought it would be neater to have a video of them storming the compound. Whomever leaked news of the raid, made that a rather bad idea though, got 4 agents killed that day and more than 80 others by the time it was over, 2 months later.

I bet the guy or gal that suggested they pick him up away from home didn't even get to say, "I told you so."

This right here. I worked with BATF quite a bit during my career. They have very poor leadership and training, and the bosses are all about the publicity. In one infamous incident (amongst many), an agent was ordered to take custody of evidence at a bombing scene that was already logged by another agency: the sealed evidence bag was cut open and it was repackaged it into an BATF evidence bag, violating the chain of custody. The prosecutors were livid.

 

[jmorris]

I can't believe there is any question as to why they blocked the ring doorbell or the legality of that action. I'd think any agency serving a warrant would want to disable any surveillance capability of the target of an arrest or search warrant.

Anyone coming after you would be smart to not allow you to see or know their movements, for the same reasons you want to see them. It's an advantage, from the first game of checkers we all know its best to take advantages away from opponents.