Atmosphere at the Tulsa Gun Show

[Sniper66]

Just checking in and sharing my perspective about the gun show this weekend. For the first time in 15 or so years I was really disappointed. I've been a staunch defender of the show in the face of some criticism over the years. The show this weekend was dominated by discussions (mostly with great bitterness) of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) virus and vaccine, the vile White House assault on guns and gun owners, and the pricing on ammo and reloading components. It all combined to make it a very sad event.
I did learn there is no shortage of ammo; only a shortage of reasonably priced ammo. In all my years of attending the show, I've never seen that much ammo. There were some ammo dealers with stacks of ammo but hundreds of tables with some portion of their table space dedicated to ammo. With few exceptions, nearly all of it was priced 200%-300% above prices of a year ago. I wanted to buy one box of 30-30 ammo for a family member. The $2 per round stuff disappeared quickly and left only the $4 per round and not much of it. I declined to pay that much.
Primers were worse; for example, small rifle primers typically sold in the recent past for $30 per 1,000 were tagged $200+. Most powder was $25-$30 per lb at shows a year or so ago, was marked $60-$100 today. It was scary how much impact the virus and the White House has had and will habve in the coming months.

 

[CDP45]

I went to a local swap meet this weekend. You’re right. Ammo was selling at a premium price. One person wanted a buck a round for 9mm. I guess supply and demand is up there right now. Search around. There are still some decent prices out there.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Gun Shows are not fun anymore. Over priced and very negative. I rather sit around with buddies at a camp fire. Show and tell a couple for guns and have some bbq

 

[milsurpguy]

They're fun if you're doing the selling.

 

[Dale Alan]

Were people buying much of the high priced stuff ?

 

[BCR#1]

The last show I attended had one table with 10-12 bricks of various size primers for $200.00 each and the seller said I had better go ahead and grab 1 or 2 before they were gone. I told him I had a few at home but he persisted saying a few won't cut it in these times and that the price would be higher the next show. I just grabbed my phone and showed him this picture while telling him the amount has been reduced to 34K due to trading 8400 SPP for 8400 coated 135 and 115 gr 9mm bullets and then loading some of said bullets for my upcoming steel plate practical pistol and PCC matches for the rest of the year.

He then starts trying to talk me out of my primers by offering $100.00 for each brick I would bring him. By now a small crowd had gathered and random shouts of higher offers started. I turned to the crowd and said $250.00 each, any takers? None were noted and the crowd dispersed. All said and done, no $ was spent by me except for entry of $8.00.

Bill

 

[Elkins45]

I toyed with the idea of attending a show this weekend but didn’t go. I really don’t need anything and I t was a couple of hours away. I didn’t feel like driving that far and paying $10 just to look at overpriced stuff I don’t need.

 

[SunnySlopes]

I'd been following a thread on our local Oklahoma gun board. I'm in the Tulsa area and opted not to go because last year, both shows were cancelled and newcomers (and some old timers) to our beloved hobby are desperate for "shootin' stuff." Some observations by some of our Oklahoma members:

Guns and ammo are insane. Just walked past a booth selling reload 9mm for $895/k. $1-$1.25 per round of 223/556

there’s so many people here right now I’m wondering if it won’t be too long before they have to stop letting people in. It’s shoulder to shoulder right now. It is flat out packed in there. I ended up leaving. Just too many people for me.

Tried to buy some spare magazines at the big mag vendor setup but got tired of waiting. I’ll just order some online.

ust got back myself. What a joke, for the most part.

Most of the comments had to do with the prices for ammo. 30-30 ammo for $90 for 20 rounds, for example.

I saw a guy with a table full of WWB in various calibers for no less than $1/round. He still had most of it by the end of the show...

On the other hand,

I saw people carrying cases of ammo out. The stuff was selling. Even at $1+/rd.

And,

Talked with one vendor, he had 8 tables. 5 were empty. He sold 5 tables full of guns yesterday.

All in all, sounds pretty much like a typical Wanamaker show. IMO.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

We live in a society that has demonstrated that buyers are more than willing to bend over backwards to pay incredible prices per each round of ammunition that can possibly be pumped out of the factories as fast as they are made.

I fear this “perfect storm” of events is going to PERMANENTLY inflate the cost of ammunition from here on out. I don’t think it will EVER be as cheap as it was pre Covid.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I go whenever there isn't a panic. If there is. The prices are too high and the crowds to large for me.

 

[welldoya]

I haven’t been to a show since this mess started.
Ammo was sky high the last panic too.
Then people quit buying and prices came down. Manufacturers began offering rebates.
Barring political interference, I believe the same thing will happen eventually.

 

[Speedo66]

I'm fortunate to have a pretty good sized local business who always had good prices, i.e., 9mm Aguila, PPU, or Fiocci was usually $8-9 a box or Wolf Gold .223 was $6+ a box.

Got an email flier from them on Fri., they got some ammo in and now Wolf Gold was $15 a box, and Wold steel 9mm, which used to be $6 a box was now $35. Both are now all gone.

This place has never gouged in the past, unfortunately at this point I think they're just subject to supply and demand prices from their distributors.

I felt this was coming based on past elections and made a conscious effort to stock up pretty good on ammo and reloading supplies, so I'm OK.

 

[tws3b2]

There is No shortage. They are producing more ammo than ever. The only shortage is in Common sense. The jerks that are buying it up and selling at Rediculous prices And, The Fools that pay it.

 

[SunnySlopes]

There is No shortage. They are producing more ammo than ever. The only shortage is in Common sense. The jerks that are buying it up and selling at Rediculous prices And, The Fools that pay it.

Unfortunately, this merch is being traded/sold online, and enterprising folks (aka, "vultures") are using bots to monitor and buy all available inventory. Different accounts. Same purchaser. That's how they're getting around the limit.

I frequently peruse vendor's websites. This morning, Midway had small rifle match primers pop up. As soon as I clicked the "add to cart" icon, they messaged me that they were already sold out.

This is the problem.

Powder valley released a statement (did I see it here?) that they cancelled a large number of orders because they discovered the buyers were cheating on the limits.

I saw a "sale" of Federal 22 rimfire ammo on a Ky gun shop website. 800 rounds for $124. It didn't last long. And shortly thereafter, on Gunbroker, there was an abundance of, you guessed it, 800 round boxes of Federal 22 LR for considerably more than $124.

Shortages always bring out the vultures.

 

[lilguy]

I buy in quantity after things return to a new normal, prices of everything increase some due to inflation. Last time I bought quantity 9mm .20/ rd, 308 .60/rd and such. I buy when there is plenty for everyone knowing times like these will cycle through every now and then.
My wife and daughter are both in medicine and PPEs have gone up 500-800 % since January of 2020. It’s all profiteering now because supplies are not being rationed as in mid 2020. Guns are starting to show up in my local shops now, some months back they looked looted when I visited. Fear not, police departments are speaking out about shortages, so no ones picking on civilian gun owners. Millions of new owners buying a couple boxes and millions of others buying in panic, it's human nature.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I thought long and hard about going and in the end just swallowed the $700 I already had in tables and stayed home for the gorgeous Arizona spring. Besides, I'd have missed my scheduled irrigation and the joy of sitting on the porch watching the dogs fly about in a tizzy of chase&splash.

What pals have told me and what's above only reinforced the decision.

All the guns and reloading tools I had to sell are easy to justify in keeping and easier still to sell locally. Part of wanting to go was to buy from my tables but as I know a crowded Tulsa show is NOT a fun environment for either the buyers or the sellers.... It was a can best kicked down the road for me.

Todd.

 

[AlexanderA]

Ammo prices that high are unsustainable. And there's no rational explanation why they're high right now. After all, shooting is a discretionary activity. People are hoarding, expecting bans on ammo? An overreaction, you think?

Fortunately, I have plenty of ammo for my needs (which are next to nothing). At 76 years old, I haven't been shooting in years.

 

[SunnySlopes]

And there's no rational explanation why they're high right now.

Read my post #14. The bulk of commercially available ammo is online, and unscrupulous people are using computer programs to monitor and purchase all this ammo and reloading supplies. The websites I frequent have limits per customer, but those aforementioned people have multiple accounts set up, different credit cards, etc. And it's one computer (theirs) communicating with another computer (the vendor) at 186,000 miles a second.

Even if I spot the item just as it's posted on the Midway website, I can't type fast enough to beat a computer's transmission.

As I said earlier, Powder Valley caught some people trying to beat the system and cancelled a large number of orders.

Also, families are spreading out to wait at the doors of our local Bass Pro, Academy, and larger gun shops, for them to open and then buy all they're allowed. We're seeing them advertise on Armslist and Tulsa Gun Sales dot com. An employee of Bass Pro told me steps they had taken to try to stem the tide, but he says it's not working.

Yeah, people need to stop buying, but they're not. With the flood of new shooters on the scene, apparently they're keeping the gougers in business.

 

[AlexanderA]

Eventually, the speculative house of cards will crash, and the hoarders will be left holding the bag. It always happens.

 

[BigBore44]

Eventually, the speculative house of cards will crash, and the hoarders will be left holding the bag. It always happens.

Hoarders don’t sell. That’s kind of the definition of hoarding. I have more extra primers than BCR#1. Haven’t sold any. Won’t sell any. I will use them eventually. Might take me a few years. But they aren’t costing me anything to keep.

Make no mistake, the people selling ammo at those crazy prices aren’t hoarders. They’re profiteers and pure capitalists. And they are making a killing. They are buying this ammo at marginally marked up prices and selling it for major profits. If they get stuck with 30k rounds, so what? They didn’t pay that much extra for it. They can still recoup most, if not all, of their money. It just won’t be a profit. And they won’t care. Hell I don’t even care. If someone wants to pay $4/round for 30-30, that’s on them. And believe me, people are paying it. So why shouldn’t someone sell it at that price?

I’d be very curious to know how much tax revenue this panic has made for the states from ammo and gun sales. I’d bet it’s easily in the billions. Kinda makes one wonder.

 

[BCR#1]

I have more extra primers than BCR#1. Haven’t sold any. Won’t sell any.

If someone is willing to give up an $.08 projectile for a $.025 primer, I'll do that trade any day and I didn't have to wait for them to be made/shipped like a lot of people are having to wait for. Other team members have contacted me for the same trade but I now have what I need for the foreseeable future.

Bill

 

[SunnySlopes]

Eventually, the speculative house of cards will crash, and the hoarders will be left holding the bag. It always happens.

You're referencing two separate phenomena. Yes, "hoarders" are buying all they can. But that demographic "hoards." They don't sell.

Then there's the "gougers." That's the demographic in your "speculative house of cards." They don't hoard. They buy and sell at grossly inflated prices. That's the definition of gouging.

Ah, I see BigBore beat me to it. Great minds, and all.

 

[Batty67]

I had a similar experience when I went to a regional gunshow in Fredericksburg, VA. There was plenty of ammo, but NOBODY budged on pricing. It's like all the sellers signed an agreement to not go lower than X price on a given caliber. I saw some new gun owners buy 50-100 rounds here and there, but mostly experienced folks shake their heads and keep walking.

 

[wgp]

Do we think the people who will pay these prices will actually shoot the ammo? I doubt it, and I also doubt they'll keep buying more. And the opportunist re-sellers aren't buying it to shoot either. So as long as the factories keep pumping it out, will the demand then finally slow? I predict we'll soon be in a sea of Covid vaccine as the supply rolls on and those who want, it get it. Maybe ammo will be the same. If so, that's when THR folks will again stock up.

 

[Elkins45]

If the hoarders didn’t already have a basement full of ammo then they weren’t very good hoarders. The people buying all the ammo now are new gun owners, speculators, and people who shot so infrequently they didn’t even keep a full box of ammo for their guns.

I feel bad for 2/3 of that group. While I fully support the rights of speculators to engage in capitalism it is my sincere hope they all choke on their ammo and are forced to unload it for a severe loss.