Attempted carjacking or simple paranoia?

[honkeoki]

Another "what would you have done if" scenario:

I was leaving work late. Sun sets around 5:10 and I was leaving the office at 6:15 or so -- full dark. The elevator's broken so you have to go down the back steps, into a behind-the-bldg parking lot, down a short alley, across a street and into the parking lot. The parking lot isn't well-lit.

Picture this: North, a single-story house (pink, if you can believe it) with no light. East, there's a two-lane street. South, a brick wall about 5 feet high at the back of a gas station. A lot of people buy $1 beer from the gas station and then stand behind this wall guzzling it. West, another 5-foot wall with a narrow alley leading into the parking lot behind a Burger King. No lights anywhere.

I crossed the street. My car was parked on the north side, nose to the house. The moment I stepped into the parking lot a guy in a looo-ooo-ooong white tshirt, baggy jeans, boots and a baseball cap entered the parking lot from the other side. He started walking straight toward me. Not fast, not slow, just normal walking.

I started walking a little faster because otherwise he was going to cut me off before I got to the car. I sped up. I got halfway to the car. A little closer. The guy was maybe 15 feet away, staring right at me, not talking. I got to the car and walked around the trunk, headed for the driver's side door.

The guy started tugging on his tshirt. One handful, then a second, pulling it up over his belly like he was trying to get at something tucked into his belt. I opened the car door.

The instant I got in the car, the guy turned on his heel and walked away at exactly the same speed. Not fast, not slow -- just instantly disengaged.

So I'm convinced he intended to jack me -- skinny guy in an empty parking lot in a bad neighborhood after dark. I don't know if he wanted my wallet or the car or both.


So -- what would you have done? Me, I just tucked my head down, assumed a "victim posture" and scampered to my car. Please note I wasn't carrying a firearm, a knife or a flashlight -- not even a rotten piece of fruit.

All opinions welcome -- including the inevitable "Gee you're stupid."

Thanks, all.

 

[Arc-Lite]

In todays world, no matter where you find yourself....the fashion in which you "present" yourself is most important. Him watching you as closely as you said...means any of your actions....would have been noted...and the last thing any mugger scum wants...is a victim... who might be one, of serious action. If he was as you said....a social preditor....change your parking spot...and that part of your routine... and do not question yourself in your gut feelings...if something looks wrong.... it usually is.... could have, should have, would have... is all after the fact...thoughts...and ones of reaction...keep all serious exchanges...ones of your control, and place the preditor...in the reaction position. Arc-Lite

 

[victory]

Around here a long white t-shirt and blue jeans is a gang uniform.

So when they rob you and you tell the cops a black guy in a long white t-shirt and blue jeans they look around and go "which one?"

 

[R.H. Lee]

So -- what would you have done? Me, I just tucked my head down, assumed a "victim posture" and scampered to my car. Please note I wasn't carrying a firearm, a knife or a flashlight -- not even a rotten piece of fruit.

I wasn't there, so I don't know if you 'deferred' to him or not. I probably would have looked him straight in the eye, maybe smiled (or maybe not) and said "Hello" in a firm voice. If I got aggresive vibes, I am quite capable of getting a maniacal look in my eyes that stops people short-for a few seconds. Of course, I always have at least a knife on me, if not a firearm. It is never a good idea, IMO, to assume any kind of 'victim posture'. My .02, YMMV

 

[Atticus]

The only time that happened to me...the guy asked me for a buck.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Right, it could have simply just been a panhandler. No big deal.

And would you default to the notion that it was an attempted carjacking? First, nothing was attempted. You just have a guy with bizarre behavior. It well could have been an attempted panhandling incident as much as anything else.

Second, why a carjacking and not some other crime? Why would you think it is a carjacking? Is it because you were in a parking lot and going towards your car? If I were to guess a crime, my guess would be a mugging of some sort, not a carjacking.

I am sorry, what were the clues again that he was after your car? Maybe I missed something?

As for not assuming the typical victim posture, good for you. Too bad you gave off all the other victim signs, setting yourself up for a potential problem. Why the heck did you NOT at least have a flashlight? Why did you NOT move your car to a better parking location before dark?

I think you are a little paranoid that you were going to be carjacking or mugged simply because of the situational mistakes you make which made you a lot more scared of normal things that happen in the bad parts of town that you probably are not aware of because you have little insight in what goes on in those areas, on the street, and after dark.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

"victim posture"

I just tucked my head down, assumed a "victim posture" and scampered to my car. Please note I wasn't carrying a firearm, a knife or a flashlight -- not even a rotten piece of fruit.

Act like food and you will be eaten.

No excuse not to carry pepperspray and a knife. I never leave the house without my ASP key defender. Pepperspray and an impact weapon all in one.

 

[wdlsguy]

Sounds to me like the other guy was positioning himself for an attack.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html#criminal_positioning

 

[GunnySkox]

Good Lord.

Everyone on this board goes on and on and on about being in Condition Yellow all the time, and this guy posts a story in which he felt a potential threat might have been approaching him, and what does he get? "God, what are you, some kind of paranoid maniac?!" Half the replies are people reading straight from the pages of Ye Olde Riot Act, even picking such ridiculous nits as, " why a carjacking and not some other crime?" It disgusts me that every time someone comes on this board asking for help, or to ask for advice about a situation that took place earlier, all he gets is a couple of "I don't knows", maybe one or two useful, insightful posts, and a bunch of badgering BS from the rest of the holier-than-thou crowd.

~Slam_Fire
PS. Before someone points it out with a smug smirk on their keyboard, I realize the hypocrisy of my post, which doesn't help the original guy at all.

 

[38SnubFan]

Slam Fire, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Here it is, plain and simple: If you perceive a threat, then it IS possible that something bad is going to happen. It may happen; it may not happen. But you understood the possibility of that something happening and prepared for it. Unfortunately, the "victim posture" is not a good thing. If you look like prey, you become prey. Always look your threat directly in the eyes, and be prepared to fight. Another sound piece of advice I heard is even when you can't carry a firearm, carry a knife. That's one tool I ALWAYS have with me no matter what. Same goes for my girlfriend (she's only 20, so she can't legally carry). One of my Public Safety Supervisors gave me a stong piece of advice when I first started as an officer: "Fear is not a bad thing. If you don't have fear, you're going to get your a** kicked. However, when someone makes you fearful, turn that fear into anger. Be angered and enraged that this person is threatening you." I found this mindset now allows my adrenaline to pump in FIGHT mode, rather than FLIGHT mode. In my line of work (UNARMED Public Safety Supervisor), unless a weapon is brought into play or you're truly going to get seriously injured/killed, you DO NOT back down from the fight. I used to think just about anyone could mess me up. I've come to find out that by using that mindset, I haven't lost a battle, and usually can end most of my possibly-violent confrontations without laying a fingerprint on the BG.

The best weapon you will ever have.....is the one between your ears.

You survived, and kept your car in the process. That's what count. Hope my advice will better prepare for the next time something like that happens, and that you walk away intact, with all your belongings, AND your dignity.

Good luck!

-38SnubFan

 

[Atticus]

I don't think anyone implied that he was wrong in being worried....and no one called him paranoid. He had good reason to be concerned . But there are also a number of reasons the guy could have been appoaching him. Are you gonna pull a gun on everyone who walks up to you and asks what time it is, or for a light, or for a buck? Alert is good....living in constant fear is not.

 

[38SnubFan]

Atticus,

I made my opinion based on the what the original poster stated the actions of the subject were: clothing, composure, actions (the fact he continued to approach without making verbal contact), and the fact the was tugging under his shirt at his waistband as if he were grabbing for something.

Given this evidence, my initial reaction would have been that I'm dealing with a suspicious person.

Now I already know what a lot of people would say to this: "That's profiling, which is wrong!" Yes, it IS profiling. NO, it's not wrong. It's something that ALL of us are guilty of in some way or another. Those who do.....don't get their butts kicked.

Now would I pull a gun or knife on him? No, because he didn't yet make a threat of violence. I would however, make the initial verbal contact, with a simple "Hello," "Did you lose something?" or "Can I help you?". If I then continue to percieve that something bad COULD happen, I'll casually put some type of cover between him and myself, in case it does happen, in which case I would be prepared to deal with a violent act.

We're all taught to be non-biased and to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and we all should. However, when it comes to one's personal safety and self-defense, we each must call it as we see it, which will sometimes require bias and self-defense. It's not fair, I know. Neither is life.

Hope I cleared up my previous post and am better understood.

-38SnubFan

 

[twoblink]

Two people get pulled over by the same cop, about 10 minutes apart. One of them was me, the other was my friend.

I was in a suit and tie, polite to the officer, and he knocked on my car 3 times, and gave me a warning. My friend, (10 minutes later) got pulled over..

He sat on the curb for about an hour while the cop pointed a gun at him, made him sit on the curb, called for backup, and went through the entire car..

Why?

My friend was in a wife beater shirt, baggy pants, hat backwards, and was confrontational...

So.. While I'm not Vera Wang, I can tell you "fashion" speaks much about the person and the situation..

That said, you had CAR KEYS. I would have had them between my fingers, pointed out.. Car keys WILL go through the small floating ribs if slammed into them (please don't ask me how I know..) so you had a weapon, you just weren't trained to be alert enough to use them.

"Melting down" in a dangerous situation is the worst thing in the world. You now are aware that you didn't know what to do, didn't have a plan.. So great, now you can devise one, just in case it happens again.

In some great states, carrying a knife is illegal, because most states are pro-criminal, not pro-victim. But car keys most certainly aren't, and you can check your state to see if those keychain batons are legal. Also, trying a whistle.. Muggers hate attention..

Keychain Batons would be my first recommendation, as well as having a gameplan of what to do..

 

[Browns Fan]

Quote:
"Please note I wasn't carrying a firearm, a knife or a flashlight -- not even a rotten piece of fruit."

Use enough fruit!

 

[reagansquad]

The 'victim posture' thing isn't always true. Where I grew up, a lot of the hispanic gangs/gang members will think you are challenging them if you look them in the eye or keep your head up... especially at stoplights. If you look straight, carefully avoid eye contact, then you become scenery and they could care less.

 

[jojo]

Without reading all of the responses, what else could you have done? I mean your not armed, and even if you can defend yourself well, I would always try to avoid having to use force if I can.
I think you did well, you were aware (a biggie) and adjusted you angle speed to get to relative safety asap, and had a good result.

jojo

 

[newman32]

"So I'm convinced he intended to jack me -- skinny guy in an empty parking lot in a bad neighborhood after dark. I don't know if he wanted my wallet or the car or both."

I think you are right, and for whatever reason he decided to abort his little mission. Maybe it was a turf thing and he was just encourageing you to leave? Maybe more? Who knows.

I think you did good. I mean, its just you and him...what other purpose could he have there? To come as close as 15 feet, staring right at you can't be a good thing. Maybe he was going to ask you if you wanted some hot tea? I don't think his race/color is an issue here at all. If ANYONE behaved that way in that environment, I would be concerned.

I would think of your encounter as a free lesson in survival. You came away totally unharmed and can think it through. Could you have turned and ran? Could you have assumed a stronger appearance and verbally challenged him at some point? If he decided to attack you instead of turning away, what would you have done? Was he alone, or did he have friends nearby that you didn't see? Lots of things to think about, but you ended up doing the right thing and coming out OK.

As others have said, you might want to carry something, but you need to know how to use it. Also, some practical kind of self-defense program might be good too.

Also remember, that even if you are "unarmed" you still have weapons available to you. People have used car antennas as weapons. A head hitting a parked car, wall, or the cement ground will do wonders. A good pair of heavy boots is always nice to be wearing, or bring a boiling hot cup of coffee with you next time to throw in his face.

 

[SapperLeader]

Congrats on the excellent situational awareness. You saw something out of the norm, it rose that fight or flight hackle, and you decided to beat feet to your car. Good move, it was a excellent strategy. Your tactics need some major improvement.
Ok, the obvious - you need to carry a gun, flashlight, knife, OC spray, rolled up magazine. Whichever you’re able to carry legally, as per your state laws, or your company guidelines do so. That’s hindsight, next time you know better. Even if you don’t want/cant carry a weapon or OC to work, you have a perfect excuse for a flashlight, since the lights don’t work. Magazines are pretty innocent to; it was something to read over lunch. Roll it up tight, and you have an impact weapon. So you have none of the previous items, but what do you have. You have your keys, and you have anything available around you. Chances are I would not be picking up stray objects as that could serve to escalate things. As of now, this is either crazed mugger, or a guy running late to pick up his kids looking for a set of jumper cables to get his car started. I would have had my keys out for two reasons, one always get your keys out as you approach the car, and two, they make a heck of a weapon, see twoblinks post. Finally, you assumed victim posture, bad idea. I am not saying getting into an eye dominance he-man staring match, but walking in a confident manner, with a brisk sense of purpose and head held high can do much to get you out of bad places. If you walk like you’re not worried, everything is under control, and woe to whoever bothers you, 99% of the time, it works. Great topic, I am glad everything worked out. I will add something else, I find war gaming scenarios in my head does much too both raise confidence, and allow me to imagine scenarios and plan accordingly. If you imagine a scenario playing out in your head, you will do better if things actually do happen. This works on what to do on everything from the guy asking for jumper cables or if he goes your wallet or your life. Comes in pretty handy on what to say when asking girls out too: p

Just to let you know how I would have done things as I sit behind my computer screen, I do carry a firearm and flashlights. I would have had my hand on my j-frame in the pocket, and had my keys/photon flashlight in the other hand as I approached the car. If he got close enough that I was starting to worry, or if he sped up, I would have faced him, and said something like “Can I help you with something Sirâ€. If your passing by each other, eye contact, a head nod to break eye contact, and a brusque “How’s it going†works well for me.