Auction or Individual Sales

[Maj Dad]

I'm considering selling off a good part of my collection, and was wondering if anyone had any opinions regarding an auction versus advertising individually (Gunbroker, for sale here on THR, etc.). Shipping longs guns isn't a problem, but handguns have been a pain in the past. Bud's recently advertised a shipping service, which may be what I would need, or a LGS I use could, but it still will be a big pain to deal with more than a few. I have acquired guns from online dealers who also offer a consignment service, but some are up around 40%-ish. So, I have to make a decision, and then press on. Any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm down sizing, moving, and heading to Europe next year for several months and I need to get cracking, toute 'suite!

 

[Twiki357]

I think I would start with local for sale ads including online on sites like Backpage.com or whatever is active in your area and here on THR. Google gun for sale in Carolina and you should find the local online sites. Next would be local consignment in your area depending on commission.

 

[mnrivrat]

Gunbroker auctions in my opinion will get you the most money out of your gun sales. (and their commision is low). Long guns you can ship yourself via USPS or UPS or FedX whichever is less hassle for you. They are fairly compatable dollar wise.

It is the shipping of handguns that is the single most pain in the process. I would reccomend you contract with a local FFL and give them so much per gun to ship for you.

My local dealer charged $25 to ship a handgun. That included the cost of postage. Since they are not keeping the gun overnight it does not get transfered to them. They can ship handguns via the USPS and if you pack it into a flat rate box the actual postage is usualy $15 or under. That gives the dealer a $10 bill (or more) just for mailing it, but it saves you and the buyer a bundle over other methods.

 

[dogtown tom]

mnrivrat .....My local dealer charged $25 to ship a handgun. That included the cost of postage.

You got a bargain, a Priority Mail Flat Rate box with $500 insurance and Adult Signature is $23.65

A $1.35 fee to mail it for you is a bargain.

Since they are not keeping the gun overnight it does not get transfered to them.

100% wrong.
"Overnight" has nothing to do with the lawful transfer of a firearm.
If YOU, a nonlicensee, hand a firearm to a licensee.........it's a transfer and must be recorded in his bound book....with the exception of a firearm he REPAIRS that day and returns it that day. Further, USPS regs require the dealer to complete a USPS Form 1508 "Statement by Shipper of Firearms" that certifies the handgun is a customary trade shipment.

If your dealer doesn't record the firearm in his bound book he's an idiot because he violates ATF regs/Federal law.
If your dealer doesn't hand over the Form 1508 to USPS he's an idiot because he violates USPS regs/Federal law.

They can ship handguns via the USPS and if you pack it into a flat rate box the actual postage is usualy $15 or under.

True, but that doesn't include Adult Signature or insurance. Only an idiot would ship a firearm without Adult Signature on delivery or without insurance.

That gives the dealer a $10 bill (or more) just for mailing it, but it saves you and the buyer a bundle over other methods.

99% of the firearms I ship run $23-28 actual postage/insurance/adult sig.
Any dealer who is charging you a flat $25 isn't the brightest bulb in the box.

 

[Red Wind]

Selling guns on consignment, with a reliable fair minded LGS, is an option as Twiki mentioned. I've done it on 2 or 3 occasions with decent results.

However, as with jewelry, an auction will many times get better results. There are a lot of variables involved.

 

[medalguy]

Auctions realize more money, but if you list the gun yourself there's fees to be paid, the hassle of taking and posting good pics, waiting for the money, and handling the transfer plus fees. Listing on forums is generally free but you still have the pics and the rest. Use a local gun show and there's minimal cost but you have to wait fir a customer to walk by. Consign to a local dealer and there are fees to pay him still. Advantages and disadvantages to each method.

 

[joem1945]

Try to find a auctioneer that does gun and estate sales. There are two that put on spring and fall gun auctions. They know how to advertize and maximise the sale. It works like a private sale and the auction house acts as agents. While they do charge 15%, I've seen them ring out some nice sales.

 

[mnrivrat]

True, but that doesn't include Adult Signature or insurance. Only an idiot would ship a firearm with Adult Signature on delivery or without insurance.

To define an idiot takes only opinion, an assumption ,or an IQ test.

The $25 charge was for shipping a package Priority mail flat rate with delivery confirmation (tracking). No additional insurance. I worked part time for him for 5 years in which all his guns he shipped were done so without insurance. In that time only one gun was damaged in shipment.

Right or wrong that was the base price for shipping . Insurance could be added on request, but I don't recall how often that applied. He moved to a different location about 3 years ago. I had contact with him a couple months ago and his base shipping price for customer handguns was still at $25.
A 11X8.5X5.5 flat rate box is presently $12.65 Delivery confirmation was 0.75 cents at the time - not sure if it has gone up.

PS: When I have shipped a gun I always use insurance, it is costly and over the hundreds of guns this guy had shipped perhaps he made out a lot better not spending for insurance so I'm not sure who the idiot might be.

 

[dogtown tom]

mnrivrat

Quote:
True, but that doesn't include Adult Signature or insurance. Only an idiot would ship a firearm with Adult Signature on delivery or without insurance.

To define an idiot takes only opinion, an assumption ,or an IQ test.

Yup, it's my opinion.

Delivery confirmation was 0.75 cents at the time - not sure if it has gone up.

Delivery confirmation is free and completely worthless. It means the letter carrier can leave it on the doorstep and provides zero security of the firearm shipment. With Signature or Adult signature the USPS cannot release the package (and their liability) without obtaining a signature.

ATF regulations require firearm shipments to be signed for by the recipient. Delivery Confirmation doesn't meet this standard.

 

[dh1633pm]

Why not list a few here?

 

[Starter52]

+1 to mnrivrat's first post. I found a local dealer who is active on GB and for a fixed fee he photographs, lists and sells my excess handguns. It's the most hassle-free way I've found, and GB auctions pull in top prices.

 

[3212]

We have an auction house in our area that holds monthly gun auctions.I've sold several there.The prices were fair in my opinion,definitely higher than LGS would give me.But,I live in an area with many hunters and collectors.

 

[bannockburn]

Maj Dad

I know some gun shops that will sell your guns on consignment for something like 10% of the selling price of the gun. For another 5% they would list the gun online at a few of the auction sites and handle the whole transaction. Don't know if this is an option where you live but it might be worth looking into it.

 

[gspn]

I'd have to know the costs, both time and monetary, of using:

- Auction house
- Gunbroker (or similar site)
- local ads

Once you know the costs...compare them.

If I had to sell a large number of guns, I would not use Gunbroker. I've sold perhaps 10 guns there, and it's more work than I want to fool with. It takes time to write the ads, take pictures, answer all the emails (most of which have questions you don't need to answer because the info is in the ad you wrote), etc.

Then you have to deal with all the people who actually win an auction, and ask you to ship it illegally...even when you specified in big bold letters how you ship.
Then it's expensive to ship stuff. I hear people online talk about cheap shipping at an FFL but that doesn't happen in my town. The last time I priced shipping a handgun it was about $70 at every FFL in town. Then if an auction doesn't hit your minimum you'll get all the emails from people telling you they'll pay you even less for the gun. It was a headache for me.

I've got several guns I could sell currently...very high quality guns...but I just don't want to fool with Gunbroker.

It also will depend on what type of guns they are. The more unique or special they are, the more you need a big audience. For instance, a local gunshop probably won't get enough people who understand the value of a mint condition pre-WWII Walther PPK RZM. However...a professional auction company that has a large, diverse list of clients may very well have a big group of collectors who understand exactly what it's worth. That PPK I'm talking about drew a lot of $800 to $1,000 bids on gunbroker...but it's worth more than $2,400...and that's where it actually sold. So finding the RIGHT audience is worth real dollars. Sometimes on Gunbroker I had to realist things 4 or 5 times until the RIGHT guy was online and looking.

Get a handle on the costs, compare them, and make the decision. Good luck.

 

[Maj Dad]

Good advice & I will ruminate on it. Long guns aren't a problem, as noted; I guess it's the handguns that are the problem shipping. UPS in Sumter, SC, will not ship long guns or handguns, even for license holders - at least they wouldn't for me, and FedEx closed its local office so I would have to drive 40-50 miles to Columbia. I can legally ship C&Rs with my license, but not modern pistols. I would most probably use a LGS where I've have established a good relationship, or Bud's shipping service if it's reasonable. Now to decide on where to sell - here is certainly an option I have used in the past, and I feel pretty sure I will use it again... I do appreciate the insights!
Cheers and regards,
George J.

 

[Al Thompson]

MD, THR member mgkdrgn (Brett Parks) is an FFL holder in Lexington that myself and other members have had excellent dealings with. IIRC, he charges 15% for Gunbroker auctions.

http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=73138

 

[TomJ]

Take a look at Armslist. I've sold several guns using it. All were face to face transactions that went well.

 

[Sniper66]

Try local adds first. I've sold many guns over the years with a $3 ad in our local "Trading Post". It used to be $2. The local liberal rag charges very high rates and controls the language allowed in gun ads. So, I refuse to use them. I've never sold though GunBroker.

 

[huntsman]

http://www.gunrunnerauctions.com/index.cfm

 

[Maj Dad]

Many thanks to all - Al Thompson I will keep that in mind. After a little checking, ShipMyGun via Bud's looks to be a viable means of handgun shipping, and long guns I can ship via USPS. I have a lot of things to wrap up before next year, so I have time enough to check the different options. Spend all your life accumulating, then have to stare shedding the impedimenta in the eye. Gotta laugh...

 

[mnrivrat]

100% wrong.
"Overnight" has nothing to do with the lawful transfer of a firearm.
If YOU, a nonlicensee, hand a firearm to a licensee.........it's a transfer and must be recorded in his bound book....with the exception of a firearm he REPAIRS that day and returns it that day.

So if I hand a dealer a gun to look at for any reason other than repair you say it is a transfer and he has to record it in his book. It's my understanding the dealer has either 24 hours or at least to the end of the work day before he has to (record) transfer it. If what you say is true he would have to transfer every gun he handles - that appears to be nonsense to me.

There has to be some amount of time before he legaly has to transfer it - what is it ? It sure can't be as you say "If YOU, a nonlicensee, hand a firearm to a licensee.........it's a transfer and must be recorded in his bound book"

 

[dogtown tom]

mnrivrat

Quote:
100% wrong.
"Overnight" has nothing to do with the lawful transfer of a firearm.
If YOU, a nonlicensee, hand a firearm to a licensee.........it's a transfer and must be recorded in his bound book....with the exception of a firearm he REPAIRS that day and returns it that day.

So if I hand a dealer a gun to look at for any reason other than repair you say it is a transfer and he has to record it in his book.

When you hand the firearm to the dealer FOR HIM TO SHIP.....you have transferred possession of the firearm. If it was for repair and returned to you THAT DAY...he does not have to record it in his bound book.

It's my understanding the dealer has either 24 hours or at least to the end of the work day before he has to (record) transfer it.

ATF regulations require a dealer to record acquisitions by the close of business the next day.

If what you say is true he would have to transfer every gun he handles - that appears to be nonsense to me.

You are confused.
If you walk into a gun store and show a gun to a dealer and ask "What's it worth?"......no transfer has occurred, and nothing is recorded in the dealers bound book.

That's entirely different than handing him a gun and asking him to ship it for you.

There has to be some amount of time before he legaly has to transfer it - what is it ? It sure can't be as you say "If YOU, a nonlicensee, hand a firearm to a licensee.........it's a transfer and must be recorded in his bound book"

I think you are forgetting the context. You posted that you handed a firearm to your dealer for him to ship.....and then wrote "..Since they are not keeping the gun overnight it does not get transfered to them..."

When you hand a firearm to your dealer for him to ship, he is required to record the acquisition in his bound book as received from mnrivat. He then records the disposition to the FFL who will receive the firearm.

This is considered a TRANSFER of possession.

He must record these entries in his bound book by close of business the next day.

 

[mnrivrat]

You seem to seperate a gun for shipping as being a transfer no matter what, and different than taking possession for apprasials, gunsmithing, or other causes for the FFL dealer to take physical possession for some period of time.

Can you point to a ATF rule or regulation that covers a shipping service as being a transfer ? I have been unable to find that ruling . And for that matter if that is true then how does common carriers like UPS or FedX handle a transfer. Obtuse minds want to know .

 

[dogtown tom]

mnrivrat You seem to seperate a gun for shipping as being a transfer no matter what,

Me & ATF.
I'm not separating anything. If ATF considers it a transfer, its a transfer.

and different than taking possession for apprasials, gunsmithing, or other causes for the FFL dealer to take physical possession for some period of time.

Please reread my earlier post. The dealer having possession for a particular period of time only matters for one specific instance.....the repair of a firearm that is returned the same day.
-If you take a firearm to a dealer, hand it to him for appraisal AND HE HANDS IT BACK TO YOU.....that is not a transfer because the dealer did not take legal possession.

-If you take a firearm to a dealer for repair, and the repaired firearm is RETURNED TO YOU THE SAME DAY....that is not a transfer, nothing needs to be recorded by the dealer. No 4473/NICS is required.

-If you take a firearm to a dealer for repair, and it remains with the dealer overnight, he must record it in his bound book as an acquisition.....that IS a transfer. When he returns the repaired firearm to you a week/month/year later....he simply notes a disposition to you. (no Form 4473 or NICS is required)

-If you take a firearm to a dealer for consignment, he records it as an acquisition......it IS a transfer of possession. If the firearm does not sell or you decide you want your gun back you will have to complete a Form 4473 and pass NICS before the dealer can transfer the firearm back to you.

-If you give, sell or trade a firearm to a licensed dealer, that is an acquisition.....and IS a transfer. It is immediately a transfer and must be recorded in his bound book by close of business the next day. he doesn't have to keep it overnight.

Example: You sell a handgun to a buyer in Alaska. Your dealer can mail it via USPS Priority Mail cheaper than you using FedEx/UPS. You take the handgun to your dealer, he records the manufacturer, model, serial#, type of firearm and the caliber as well as the date and YOUR name.

He then logs it out as a disposition to the licensed dealer that the buyer has chosen to receive the handgun. Your dealer then completes a USPS Form 1508 Statement of Shipper of Firearms which certifies that the shipment is a customary trade shipment to another licensed dealer or licensed manufacturer.

He then drops off the package at the post office or hands it to his letter carrier.

The receiving dealer logs the handgun into his records as received from your dealer and will transfer it to the buyer after he completes a Form 4473 and NICS background check.

Can you point to a ATF rule or regulation that covers a shipping service as being a transfer ? I have been unable to find that ruling . And for that matter if that is true then how does common carriers like UPS or FedX handle a transfer. Obtuse minds want to know .

Yeah........read this:

§478.125 Record of receipt and disposition.

(e) Firearms receipt and disposition by dealers. Each licensed dealer shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms. In addition, before commencing or continuing a firearms business, each licensed dealer shall inventory the firearms possessed for such business and shall record same in the record required by this paragraph. The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below. The purchase or other acquisition of a firearm shall, except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, be recorded not later than the close of the next business day following the date of such purchase or acquisition. The record shall show the date of receipt, the name and address or the name and license number of the person from whom received, the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any), the model, serial number, type, and the caliber or gauge of the firearm. The sale or other disposition of a firearm shall be recorded by the licensed dealer not later than 7 days following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to a nonlicensee, the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, obtained by the licensed dealer shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from the licensee's Form 4473 file and be readily available for inspection. When such disposition is made to a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from other commercial documents maintained by the licensed dealer, and be readily available for inspection. The record shall show the date of the sale or other disposition of each firearm, the name and address of the person to whom the firearm is transferred, or the name and license number of the person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, or the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, serial number if the licensed dealer transferring the firearm serially numbers the Forms 4473 and files them numerically. The format required for the record of receipt and disposition of firearms is as follows...........