Autozone Gun Issue
- Thread starter dbp
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Sent my E-mail. 
Now I will say I bet if you really looked at half of the business you shop at many do not support or give a second thought to allowing guns in their stores only posting what the law requires them to (If the law even requires it). I know at my last job the owner never posted a sign for allowing or not allowing guns in his place of business... simply because it was not an issue on his mind. I carried in my car and one of the co-owners told me he was carrying his .45 Auto CCW whether the other owner liked it or not. (The other co-owner knew I carried mine in my trunk and he was fine with it, but told me to never tell anyone else just in case it got back to the other owner.That co-owner and I went together to take our CHL course 14-hrs. worth in one day! > Try sitting next to your boss in a classroom setting for 14 hrs. and see just how they might have really been in High School!)
I do wish more stores accepted responsible CHL holders and allowing employees who pass the necessary background checks to have access to some type of gun for protection, but in the real world it is getting harder to simply "Shop Elsewhere" (Not in all cases but a few cases where it's annoying I can't shop somewhere anymore just because of their policies that don't live up to my standards.) :banghead:
Now I will say I bet if you really looked at half of the business you shop at many do not support or give a second thought to allowing guns in their stores only posting what the law requires them to (If the law even requires it). I know at my last job the owner never posted a sign for allowing or not allowing guns in his place of business... simply because it was not an issue on his mind. I carried in my car and one of the co-owners told me he was carrying his .45 Auto CCW whether the other owner liked it or not. (The other co-owner knew I carried mine in my trunk and he was fine with it, but told me to never tell anyone else just in case it got back to the other owner.That co-owner and I went together to take our CHL course 14-hrs. worth in one day! > Try sitting next to your boss in a classroom setting for 14 hrs. and see just how they might have really been in High School!
)I do wish more stores accepted responsible CHL holders and allowing employees who pass the necessary background checks to have access to some type of gun for protection, but in the real world it is getting harder to simply "Shop Elsewhere" (Not in all cases but a few cases where it's annoying I can't shop somewhere anymore just because of their policies that don't live up to my standards.) :banghead:
SigMic
Member
Even if we were to be moving business to a competitor who would do the same thing, by making a big stink about stuff like this, we are discouraging other businesses from doing anti-firearms actions.
Really, we are just trying to make it not-PC to mess with peoples guns!
It would be nice if dimwits would think to themselves, "I'd like to fire this guy for getting his gun at our employment and using it on our sight, but those whiny gun people will protest. Then I'll lose a bunch of business and my facebook page will blowup. So I'll just shut up and ignore this."
Really, we are just trying to make it not-PC to mess with peoples guns!
It would be nice if dimwits would think to themselves, "I'd like to fire this guy for getting his gun at our employment and using it on our sight, but those whiny gun people will protest. Then I'll lose a bunch of business and my facebook page will blowup. So I'll just shut up and ignore this."
The same policy exists at O'Reilly, even after robbers shot employees in the KC area. Employees may not carry firearms. It's a corporate policy that extend thru most retail businesses. The exceptions are the minority.
We worry about how politicians may take away our rights when most Boards of Directors already have. Violate the policy and you no longer have an income. Then try to find work with that as reason you were terminated. Most major chains won't.
The larger issue is that our right is already undermined and there are no protections in the law to prevent serious financial hardship because you exercised them. This isn't a single new case, it's been going on for twenty years or more since CCW started expanding, and it's still not fixed.
Corporations have taken away your right and nobody is doing anything about it.
We worry about how politicians may take away our rights when most Boards of Directors already have. Violate the policy and you no longer have an income. Then try to find work with that as reason you were terminated. Most major chains won't.
The larger issue is that our right is already undermined and there are no protections in the law to prevent serious financial hardship because you exercised them. This isn't a single new case, it's been going on for twenty years or more since CCW started expanding, and it's still not fixed.
Corporations have taken away your right and nobody is doing anything about it.
coloradokevin
Member
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Tirod is correct that this policy exists within many big corporations. But, in this case I'll make an effort to avoid Autozone at all costs. A message needs to be sent to businesses who don't have a reasonable response to incidents like this one.
MedWheeler
Member
As has been pointed out, this is a tort reform issue far more than it is a 2A-issue. It's not the businesses themselves that "need convincing"; it's their insurance companies, and the lawyers representing them.
blarby
Member
Well..... yes and no.
AutoZone is far and away liquid enough to self insure.
Not all corporate policies are dictated by lawyers, and lawyers frequently aren't the last line in personnel decisions. The fact that they often happen to be the first... that does need some work.
FWIW- that FB"activism" is gaining a lot of traction !
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45_auto
Member
In that case your boycott of them over gun rights probably won't bother them much .....
Lo8080,
"that store" wasn't the problem. The article pointed out the manager considered Mr. McLean to be a hero. It is the corporation that is the problem.
Mr. McLean did not strictly violate company policy since he had his firearm in his vehicle instead of the store during operating hours. He escaped and retrieved his firearm and returned to protect his manager who was being held by the armed robber. AutoZone has misapplied their policy since the store was closed at the time and there were no customers to protect.
"that store" wasn't the problem. The article pointed out the manager considered Mr. McLean to be a hero. It is the corporation that is the problem.
Mr. McLean did not strictly violate company policy since he had his firearm in his vehicle instead of the store during operating hours. He escaped and retrieved his firearm and returned to protect his manager who was being held by the armed robber. AutoZone has misapplied their policy since the store was closed at the time and there were no customers to protect.
smalls
Member
This is silly. They also have rights on their property.
Don't like it? Don't visit it, and certainly don't work there.
HSO, do you have a link to the Autozone policy? I'd be interested in reading it before I sent anything.
FWIW, I worked for an extremely anti gun company for a few years. Policy said no weapons on the property, including your car. I usually carried at least a knife, and most times a small mouse gun at work.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Yep, smalls, they most certainly do and on the few occasions when fired employees attempt lawsuits, they virtually never win. I say "virtually" because I can't think of a single case where an employee has won a suit for wrongful termination, or to regain his/her job, after being fired for a gun in the workplace (not speaking of guns in personal vehicles in the parking lot, but actually in the workplace).
Last year, Jeremy Hoven was fired from Walgreens and summarily filed suit. Yesterday, it was announced that he has lost.
http://www.examiner.com/article/walgreens-employee-that-shot-robbers-loses-lawsuit-to-regain-job
Since a gun is a not a protected class of item or being, employers retain the right to refuse their carriage in the workplace. Employees who go to work for such employers are made aware of the rules of employment and agree to abide by them when they agree to accept payment for coming to work and participating in the workplace. So getting fired upon discovery isn't a surprise to anyone, despite the claims of shock that are sometimes expressed.
Interesting about the notion of boycotting Autozone for their anti-gun policy. As already noted, we would have trouble doing business and getting our needs met without doing business with such companies. How ironic that we so willingly do business with other anti-gun companies that don't allow employees to carry at work which include virtually all of the national, regional, and major local chain stores. Praise is sung about various aspect of the likes of Walmart for selling AR15s and the offerings of many sporting companies that sell guns and ammo, but that don't allow employees to carry and in the case of Bass Pro, don't want you to carry a loaded gun in at least some of their stores. As with other proposed boycotts, the one here for Autozone is fairly typical. It is a mix of people who primarily either don't use the company very much anyway or proclaim that the company or product line is garbage anyway. In short, support for the boycott that is hoped to hurt the bottom line of the company is largely by folks who are either infrequent customers and/or already don't like the company.
If you want a boycott to work, it needs to be by the long standing and primary sustaining customer base, not by the ancillary patrons who pop in for the random bulb or wiper, that is, by gearheads. Autozone may make a lot of money from the pop-ins, but it is from a lot of people, at least half of whom aren't going to be gun folks and of the gun folks that do, most either don't really know about the firing, don't care, or actually understand why it had to occur, and so are not inclined to be participants. On top of that, the outrage will pass because gun owners, like most Americans, tend to have a short operational memory/functionality. When was the last time, other than with S&W, that you actually saw any long term concerted efforts by gun owners on forums such as this to make an organized effort that went beyond the run of the headlines? bikerdoc noted that the Virgnian CDL will be organizing a protest. Great. Where will the protesters be in a month when the policy hasn't changed? 2 months? 3?
Handslap ephemeral boycotts may make us feel good, but without a sustained effort involving the sustained customer base, what is actually being accomplished other than blowing off some steam? Do we really want change or just to complain for a short while and then move on to the next headline?
Last year, Jeremy Hoven was fired from Walgreens and summarily filed suit. Yesterday, it was announced that he has lost.
http://www.examiner.com/article/walgreens-employee-that-shot-robbers-loses-lawsuit-to-regain-job
Since a gun is a not a protected class of item or being, employers retain the right to refuse their carriage in the workplace. Employees who go to work for such employers are made aware of the rules of employment and agree to abide by them when they agree to accept payment for coming to work and participating in the workplace. So getting fired upon discovery isn't a surprise to anyone, despite the claims of shock that are sometimes expressed.
Interesting about the notion of boycotting Autozone for their anti-gun policy. As already noted, we would have trouble doing business and getting our needs met without doing business with such companies. How ironic that we so willingly do business with other anti-gun companies that don't allow employees to carry at work which include virtually all of the national, regional, and major local chain stores. Praise is sung about various aspect of the likes of Walmart for selling AR15s and the offerings of many sporting companies that sell guns and ammo, but that don't allow employees to carry and in the case of Bass Pro, don't want you to carry a loaded gun in at least some of their stores. As with other proposed boycotts, the one here for Autozone is fairly typical. It is a mix of people who primarily either don't use the company very much anyway or proclaim that the company or product line is garbage anyway. In short, support for the boycott that is hoped to hurt the bottom line of the company is largely by folks who are either infrequent customers and/or already don't like the company.
If you want a boycott to work, it needs to be by the long standing and primary sustaining customer base, not by the ancillary patrons who pop in for the random bulb or wiper, that is, by gearheads. Autozone may make a lot of money from the pop-ins, but it is from a lot of people, at least half of whom aren't going to be gun folks and of the gun folks that do, most either don't really know about the firing, don't care, or actually understand why it had to occur, and so are not inclined to be participants. On top of that, the outrage will pass because gun owners, like most Americans, tend to have a short operational memory/functionality. When was the last time, other than with S&W, that you actually saw any long term concerted efforts by gun owners on forums such as this to make an organized effort that went beyond the run of the headlines? bikerdoc noted that the Virgnian CDL will be organizing a protest. Great. Where will the protesters be in a month when the policy hasn't changed? 2 months? 3?
Handslap ephemeral boycotts may make us feel good, but without a sustained effort involving the sustained customer base, what is actually being accomplished other than blowing off some steam? Do we really want change or just to complain for a short while and then move on to the next headline?
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
DNS indeed makes several good points. None of which are lost on VCDL.
I do not speak for VCDL
MY focus will be a man was fired because he was complying with the policy. He was not carrying while working, he left the building, at closing, essentially off the clock, reentered and saved a possible tragedy. The zero tolerance policy is a stretch,and more that a few lawyers would love to tap the deep pockets of Autozone on his behalf.
Given the local sentiment, I think Autozone made a hasty decision that could have been a public relations success.
Just my .02.
I do not speak for VCDL
MY focus will be a man was fired because he was complying with the policy. He was not carrying while working, he left the building, at closing, essentially off the clock, reentered and saved a possible tragedy. The zero tolerance policy is a stretch,and more that a few lawyers would love to tap the deep pockets of Autozone on his behalf.
Given the local sentiment, I think Autozone made a hasty decision that could have been a public relations success.
Just my .02.
kerreckt
Member
This is the sort of situation where common sense should prevail. Autozones' intransigence on this matter does not suprise me as much as it angers me that someone would be punished for doing what was the right thing to do. I wonder how many people would have put themselves in harms way when it would have been much easier to just leave. I would like to think that I would but, the truth is, you never know until faced with the situation. Incidentally, I live about 2 miles from where this occurred and have been in that store many times but never again.
smalls
Member
Again, I'd like yo read their policy, because I'd bet it has something along the lines of not having a gun in your vehicle, either.
FIVETWOSEVEN
Member
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If you can find a major store chain like Autozone that does allow carry I will be surprised. It's for insurance reasons.
Fixed that for you.
Fixed that for you.
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I just put the following message on Facebook.
"Autozone's firing of an Air Force veteran employee in VA just before Thanksgiving because of his heroic act of displaying a weapon in order to protect his fellow employee's life and Autozone's property is despicable. I and my extended family are outraged by your company's unnecessarily harsh treatment of this USAF veteran who put his life on the line in order to protect the life of his fellow employee and his employer's property. In the future patronizing Autozone is no longer an option when any member of my family needs auto parts. And furthermore, in the future we will inform all auto repair shops that we patronize that we will not accept or pay for parts purchased at Autozone."
I don't like Facebook and I have never posted anything there before, but my wife is registered there and I used her name to post my comment. I wish I could tell the Autozone executive creeps what I really think of them and their despicable mistreatment of an American military veteran just before Thanksgiving, but that would probably get my wife kicked off of Facebook.
"Autozone's firing of an Air Force veteran employee in VA just before Thanksgiving because of his heroic act of displaying a weapon in order to protect his fellow employee's life and Autozone's property is despicable. I and my extended family are outraged by your company's unnecessarily harsh treatment of this USAF veteran who put his life on the line in order to protect the life of his fellow employee and his employer's property. In the future patronizing Autozone is no longer an option when any member of my family needs auto parts. And furthermore, in the future we will inform all auto repair shops that we patronize that we will not accept or pay for parts purchased at Autozone."
I don't like Facebook and I have never posted anything there before, but my wife is registered there and I used her name to post my comment. I wish I could tell the Autozone executive creeps what I really think of them and their despicable mistreatment of an American military veteran just before Thanksgiving, but that would probably get my wife kicked off of Facebook.
Knee-jerk reactions.
MOST employers do not allow employees to have firearms at work, by POLICY.
Those policies in place keep their insurance rates down for their corporate properties. Does that mean I agree with them? No.
Whether the AutoZone employee fired was a Mil. Veteran, LE veteran, or a retired college professor makes no difference-using nationalism to inflate a non-issue won't make this boycott any more effective for changing a policy: their insurance rate increase would be an insane cost vs. boycott cost.
The insurance industry is the culprit in these scenarios: they hold most of us silently hostage. It's the Corporate culture of pass-the-buck until the Customer doesn't know WHERE to look.
Put the NRA onto investigating the insurance industrys' fingers in this extortion till, rather than boycotting a business being held hostage by their insurance company.
MOST employers do not allow employees to have firearms at work, by POLICY.
Those policies in place keep their insurance rates down for their corporate properties. Does that mean I agree with them? No.
Whether the AutoZone employee fired was a Mil. Veteran, LE veteran, or a retired college professor makes no difference-using nationalism to inflate a non-issue won't make this boycott any more effective for changing a policy: their insurance rate increase would be an insane cost vs. boycott cost.
The insurance industry is the culprit in these scenarios: they hold most of us silently hostage. It's the Corporate culture of pass-the-buck until the Customer doesn't know WHERE to look.
Put the NRA onto investigating the insurance industrys' fingers in this extortion till, rather than boycotting a business being held hostage by their insurance company.
These no gun decisions are made by the Insurance Company that underwrites the Umbrella Liability Policy.
Could you imagine the huge lawsuit and legal problems if AutoZone said 'it's ok to bring a gun to work or store it in your car at work'..?
Then a well meaning, yet unskilled employee starts a fire-fight over stolen sparkplugs and ends up killing some innocent customers..?
Come on people..let's be realistic.
There is NO INSURANCE COMPANY that would allow a pro-carry, pro-gun policy at any retail outlet in the world.
Sure, a mom and pop store could be friendly to pro gun people like us, but a large corporation will never and can never allow $9 per hour employee's access to a gun at work.
JMO
Could you imagine the huge lawsuit and legal problems if AutoZone said 'it's ok to bring a gun to work or store it in your car at work'..?
Then a well meaning, yet unskilled employee starts a fire-fight over stolen sparkplugs and ends up killing some innocent customers..?
Come on people..let's be realistic.
There is NO INSURANCE COMPANY that would allow a pro-carry, pro-gun policy at any retail outlet in the world.
Sure, a mom and pop store could be friendly to pro gun people like us, but a large corporation will never and can never allow $9 per hour employee's access to a gun at work.
JMO
As to insurance co's/liability, they're more afraid of the relatives of the deceased hollerin' "ALL I KNOW IS SOMEBODY NEED TO WRITE ME A CHECK!".
Otherwise, I think the general gist of the matter is that most folks think the guy should get his job back and the atmosphere would clear very quickly.
t
Guillermo
member
Admittedly this is really off topic because the guy was not carrying at work therefore not violating policy.
There may be no large corporation that allows concealed carry, many do not mention it one way or another.
There may be no large corporation that allows concealed carry, many do not mention it one way or another.
FIVETWOSEVEN
Member
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- Aug 28, 2009
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How do you know he was clocked out?
By choosing to boycott AZ because of this is silly because nearly any large business has the same policy. If they kicked someone open carrying out of the store then that's one thing but this is something found almost completely across the nation. What if the same thing happens at NAPA? Are we supposed to boycott them too?
In today's lawyer filled world, this is what we have to deal with whether we like it or not.
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