Back-Up Gun?
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WrongHanded
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Something we should all try to do. Along with dominant hand only shooting. I give both some focus, but probably not enough.
I had some interesting thoughts about right-hand dominant vs left-hand dominant shooters, with regards to selecting a BUG.
Firstly, most right-handed people seem to be strongly right-hand dominant. Whereas, most (but not all) left-handed people tend to have better ability with their non-dominant hand. I believe this comes from living in a world of machines designed for the majority, a.k.a. right-handed people. Car ignitions, shifter location, can openers, etc, are all set up for the right hand. A lefty must either struggle awkwardly with the left hand, or learn to use their right. Conversely, right-handed people rarely get challenged (or even given the opportunity) to use their left.
And as far as machines designed for right-handed use, pistols are no exception. So not only must a right-handed person find a pistol that can accommodate left-hand use, when selecting a BUG for the non-dominant hand; they may also have to work harder to become competent shooting it that way.
Being a lefty, I hadn't previously considered what a struggle that might be.
Terry G
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Before I retired I carried a CZ 82 as a back up. It was large and heavy for a back up but in good holster i got used to it. That was long ago and today I carry an LCPII or more likely a Springfield Arms Hellcat. The Hellcat could be used for a primary, but I prefer a CZ P-01 or a CZ 97b for that.
It's nothing a couple broken right arms won't take care of lol.
Shooting as with most things that require dexterity takes work. How weak your weak hand is, is up to you.
JR24
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I too have considered the new Max as a Bug myself. I had a LCP that I didn't like a while back and thought a snub .38 would be better. Tried a Glock 26 and learned that for a BUG I just need something smaller and flatter.
I have to go pocket or 5 o'clock for a weak hand draw, I can't manage a second gun AIWB and something small like the LCP (and possibly max) is still pushing it for pocket carry on me, if I don't want it to look very obvious I have something big in my pockets.
I do agree that I don't like .380 for primary but feel pretty OK for a BUG option and the increased capacity of the MAX makes it look more plausible.
I have to go pocket or 5 o'clock for a weak hand draw, I can't manage a second gun AIWB and something small like the LCP (and possibly max) is still pushing it for pocket carry on me, if I don't want it to look very obvious I have something big in my pockets.
I do agree that I don't like .380 for primary but feel pretty OK for a BUG option and the increased capacity of the MAX makes it look more plausible.
d2wing
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I grew up watching those TV shows. I just read an article About W.B. Hickock making a one shot kill to the heart at 75 yards with a .36 Caliber Navy Colt. It was about the same power as a .380. The article concluded it was all about shot placement.
cal44mag
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I've never carried more than one gun. Carry gun is a S&W 340PD or a S&W 431PD (32 HR Mag).
Recently, I've added a pepper spray to my carry equipment.
Not sure which is backup and which is primary.
If my car got mobbed by a group of protestors and someone broke the window, I'd probably hit them with the pepper spray first.
Recently, I've added a pepper spray to my carry equipment.
Not sure which is backup and which is primary.
If my car got mobbed by a group of protestors and someone broke the window, I'd probably hit them with the pepper spray first.
I do not, currently,
Excellent idea.
I cannot deal in hypotheticals.
I carried a snub in a pants pocket for a while. I found that I could not draw while moving off line, while running, or while seated.
For me, pocket means jacket pocket.
I could go back to wearing a sport coat, except in really hot weather.
cal44mag
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It's a good idea to think through what you might do in certain situations.
Of course, your "plan" can be modified on the fly depending on the particular situation.
I guess you can use the word "hypotheticals", but it can't be right to give no thought to how to handle different situations.
I agree, but not to the extent that I would want to plan on whether to use spray or deadly force first in the event of a forcibly broken window.
Regarding spray, I would not use it unless it were immediately necessary, and it would not get the agent on me (as it might in a car), and if deadly force were lawfully justified anyway, I was very sure that the spray could suffice.
A Law of Self Defense Blog Post covered just such an event--a defender in the driver's seat, and an attacker who had gained access to the interior.
But that was for the specific real event covered in the video, not the general case, and it was for a fleeting moment only; should the attacher pull back momentarily, no soap.
To the question of whether deadly force would be justified, the answer was yes--reasonable, and immediately necessary to defend against imminent attack in the car.
Attorney Branca, who always carries pepper spray, said the did not think that would be prudent in the circumstances. The attacker is within arms reach, the defender cannot move, and the attacker can kill even if he cannot see. It would not be effective.
Two things to keep in mind are that in the case of the defense of a mobbed automobile, the prosecutorial deck is stacked against the defender these days, and pepper pray, which is often ineffective anyway,, would likely not work well on multiple attackers,
fxvr5
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No, the scientific term is not myelination.
What you're referring to as your 'hard wired' draw, is a result of how the nervous system is wired - which nerve cells are connected with which other nerve cells and muscles. It's this wiring, and the reinforced connections, through repeated training and use, that makes the behavior automatic. It's also called procedural or motor learning.
Myelination is the formation of the myelin sheath around a nerve fiber (axon). (Myelinated axons are commonly called 'white matter' in the central nervous system.) Myelin insulates nerve cell axons and increases the speed by which action potentials are passed along the axon. Myelination has nothing to do with how the nervous system is wired, only with how efficiently the action potential is propagated along the axon.
fastbolt
Member
I seldom carry a secondary gun, but if I do, it's more for an Onion Field type of situation.
I seldom carried a secondary weapon during my career, but for the time I did do so it was an older S&W 649 Bodyguard, in a raincoat. Wearing a raincoat over my suit or sport coat could sometimes make accessing the belt gun a bit less easy, so having the little snub in the outside raincoat pocket was a fast and easy option. Especially since I could fire it through the coat pocket, if need be.
When my former agency finally got around to addressing the practice of carrying secondary weapons in policy, one of the things required was that any approved secondary weapon had to come through the same qualification range as the duty weapon. Off-duty weapons could be taken through a more common, standardized course-of-fire, or whatever the more difficult duty weapon course-of-fire might be for any given session, depending on the time available and/or what the owner preferred.
Other requirements were that the minimum caliber authorized was .380ACP (for pistols) and .38SPL (for revolvers), and the weapon had to be approved for use by the range staff (good quality, modern manufacture, etc) ... and it had to reliably function to pass whatever course-of-fire was involved (of course).
In my younger days as a cop I saw a lot of guys carrying K-frame snubs and Colt Commanders as secondary weapons (to their service revolvers), but also the occasional .380, .32, .25 or .22LR.
I seldom carried a secondary weapon during my career, but for the time I did do so it was an older S&W 649 Bodyguard, in a raincoat. Wearing a raincoat over my suit or sport coat could sometimes make accessing the belt gun a bit less easy, so having the little snub in the outside raincoat pocket was a fast and easy option. Especially since I could fire it through the coat pocket, if need be.
When my former agency finally got around to addressing the practice of carrying secondary weapons in policy, one of the things required was that any approved secondary weapon had to come through the same qualification range as the duty weapon. Off-duty weapons could be taken through a more common, standardized course-of-fire, or whatever the more difficult duty weapon course-of-fire might be for any given session, depending on the time available and/or what the owner preferred.
Other requirements were that the minimum caliber authorized was .380ACP (for pistols) and .38SPL (for revolvers), and the weapon had to be approved for use by the range staff (good quality, modern manufacture, etc) ... and it had to reliably function to pass whatever course-of-fire was involved (of course).
In my younger days as a cop I saw a lot of guys carrying K-frame snubs and Colt Commanders as secondary weapons (to their service revolvers), but also the occasional .380, .32, .25 or .22LR.
JR24
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I do that occasionally in winter with my heavy coat.
JTHunter
Member
The only gun that I have that would "qualify" as a BUG is a Colt Junior .25 ACP. I have a 100 y.o. Colt in .32 ACP but it is longer and taller (but thinner) than my Astra .380. Its barrel is also worn to the point that it isn't that accurate any more. The Astra might qualify as a BUG but it isn't that small but would work well as a back up for my .357.
That, of course, can be changed. I have now done that myself.
Alte Schule
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This was also my experience. My department allowed almost anything (no Jennings, Davis or anything similar) as a backup weapon. In 1981 ,the first time on the range to qualify with my backup, I saw almost every caliber from .22 LR to .45 APC. J frames in .32 & .38 were very popular as well as PPK's in .32 and .380. The guy next to me had a .32 Seecamp which had just come on the market and it attracted a lot of attention from the instructors. I had (still have) a Beretta .25 Jetfire. As a young married man with a family that was all I could afford. Replaced it with a PPK/S .380 a couple years later and then a Colt Detective Special.
Around '88 the department standardized the calibers for back up firearms. Minimum was .380 and maximum was .357 Magnum although they reinstated the .32 after a lot of b****ing and moaning from some senior patrolmen. By 2000 .32 was permanently phased out &.40 and .357 Sig were added.
Choctaw
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I worked for an agency that issued a Glock 17 and Glock 26 and made you carry both on duty. Along with all the other gear we were loaded down with daily the Glock 26 wasn't a very popular item.
Shivahasagun
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There is no faster draw than with your hand already on the gun.
This can be done (or not done) casually with a small gun in a pocket and perhaps a purse.
Very often the first good hit is what ends the encounter.
I like carrying two guns for the options they offer.
This can be done (or not done) casually with a small gun in a pocket and perhaps a purse.
Very often the first good hit is what ends the encounter.
I like carrying two guns for the options they offer.
Pudge
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Are there significant advantages to a BUG if shooting with your weak hand isn't a good option?
Howland937
Member
Probably not unless you have some serious dexterity in your toes.
I doubt a lot of people feel that weak hand shooting is a great option, but having it as an option is a good thing.
Besides, there are plenty of sound arguments for having a back up that don't necessitate weak hand usage.
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