Bad Behavior?

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majortoo

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Just returned from a delightful trip to Alaska, where I heard of a sad incident. A man in the Denali Park was wearing a sidearm (which of course is now legal) and shot and killed a female moose. He claimed self defense, and as there were no other witnesses he was not charged. However, it was noted that there were two young moose calves seen in the immediate area. My guide offered the opinion that the shooter should have been more aware of the situation, and might have gotten too close to the calves, thus generating the response from the mother which ended in her death.
Denali is a wonderful experience, and I recommend it strongly. However, I also recommend that you do your homework and further engage the services of an experienced guide. The numbers of Alaskan brown bears, black bears and moose are simply amazing. A visit to Denali is truly memorable. If you go, please share your stories with us.
 
I don't think it was bad behavior. Unless you're talking about the moose.
 
Certainly "situational awareness" applies in the wild just as much as it does on a city street.

Further, when one shoots a big game animal out of season and then claims self-defense, one often faces a miniature version of the same sort of scrutiny that one might face if one shoots a person and claims self-defense. I've no doubt this guy really wishes he'd made some choices that lead to a different conclusion. Being the subject of a legal investigation is never fun.

But without a lot more understanding of exactly what happened, it probably doesn't serve any purpose to speculate on whether he was at fault or just a victim of terrible circumstances.
 
This is one of those situations that is very hard to read. Moose are very dangerous. Probably at least as bad as bear, but don't command the respect. I've seen folks get way too close to moose in Rocky Mt National Park to get photos. Those people were in just as much danger as if it had been a bear. Most would never get out of a car with a bear around.

As hard as we try to be aware of our surroundings we cannot always avoid getting close to a dangerous animal. While I hate it for the moose, if he truly had no other options I say a human life is more important than a moose. If he was doing something stupid, and this could have been avoided then there should be charges against him. Don't know how you go about proving what happened either way with no witnesses.
 
I shake my head every time I drive through Yellowstone. That said, I was once standing in the middle of Henry's Fork flinging my fly rod around when momma moose and a calf come walking through the bushes. Close enough it scared the beans outa me. Just slowly backed away and let her enjoy her river.
 
My Dad tells the story of his encounter with a mother moose while fishing somewhere on Elmondorf AFB sometime between 1969 and 1972 when he was stationed up there.
While Dad was standing in the middle of a stream, a calf ran across and started browsing on the other side (the side of the stream Dad had come from and where my Mom and the car were parked on the road shoulder). Dad assumed a cow must be near by and decided to vacate the stream, back to the car. About the time Dad found the bank, the cow noticed him, between her and her calf. She charged. Dad dropped his fly rod, managed to get behind a tree/shrub, pulled his service issue S&W 39 and fired a few shots into the air. This seemed to piss off the cow, who charged the tree and attacked it until she was on the same side as her calf. At that point, she broke off her attack, trotted over to the calf and wandered off.
An adult moose can kick your head just about clean off in an instant if you're standing in front of her.
 
We were at Adams falls on the trail a couple of weeks ago and had a momma moose step out not 25 yards away. Her calf walked out of the brush, she looked at us, and they both melted away in the forest in an instant. She was quieter than a deer when she walked away.
 
It probably was self-defense. The man is very lucky that he was able to kill it with his sidearm. Moose are true hard targets, much more so than a bear is. While situational awareness is important, it's entirely possible circumstances just went beyond his control, particularly with two calves. Depending on terrain, he could have walked into the situation without ever being able to see it ahead of time.

That said, I still think a bear is more dangerous because they're more agile. A moose can't turn as quickly, nor can it fit into as tight an area. Going around a tree takes time for a moose, whereas for a bear it's only an incredibly minor inconvenience.
 
It's kinda sad, because the calves lost their mother. But think about the man and the family he could be supporting. When it comes down to it, it is you or them. In real life, not everybody wins a trophy.

I'm particularly irked that laws exist where we put animals over humans. Poaching and indiscriminate killing is one thing. This is entirely different.
 
It's kinda sad, because he didn't just kill the cow moose protecting her young.

He killed three moose, because the calves will not be able to survive without the cow.

The F&G folks will have to put them down, if they haven't already.

rc
 
I'm particularly irked that laws exist where we put animals over humans.
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Find me a place where the law says that. Anywhere.

Poaching and indiscriminate killing is one thing. This is entirely different.
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The laws we have simply attempt to ensure that that's what's actually happening. Believe it or not, some guys will kill animals just for "fun."
 
I see nothing wrong. Yes, he COULD have used more "situational awareness" to prevent the incident, but the same could be said for any of of hundreds of legit self-defense shootings involving human perpetrators. Hindsight is 20/20, and playing armchair QB after the fact rarely paints an accurate picture. Unless I was there, in his shoes, its not my place to condemn his actions or question whether he was truly justified.
 
Unless I was there, in his shoes, its not my place to condemn his actions or question whether he was truly justified.
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Assuredly it is not your place, or any of ours, which is a point I made in my first post.

However, there are folks (Natural Resource Police, Park Service Police) who do/did/will make such determinations based on his story and whatever evidence is available after the fact, and they have the power to bring serious charges if they feel the shooter acted inappropriately. It's worth remembering that even when shooting an animal, it isn't always just your say-so that makes it justifiable. And it is a situation to be avoided if at all possible.
 
I'm with Sam. If the guy was just walking along, surprised an animal and was attacked that is one thing. If he saw the moose, tried to get closer for a better look or a photo and was attacked, that is another matter. I still do not hold a moose's life in higher regard to a human. He was still within his rights to defend himself, but should face charges and or fines for harrassing wildlife.

But until facts prove otherwise I'll give the guy the benefit of doubt and support his decision.
 
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