Bad gunsmithing- what's fair?

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Motega

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I sent an old airgun to an "airsmith" for repair. It was returned in working order, but he could find a screw for the rear sight and returned it with the rear sight epoxied in, shooting 2 feet low, and obviously damaged with pliers- it is bent, there is raw metal showing where pliers scraped and crushed the metal, and he didn't tell me beforehand I might expect such an issue or repair. The only reason I sent this out for repair was that it is from my father-in-law and represents the only firearm legacy of my wife's side of the family. I'd like to pass it along to my kids as something from that side of the family as corny as that sounds.
He sent me a bill for $85, and a quick Google search revealed that he could have purchased at least 3-4 of these (Crosman 130) in various conditions even if it were just for that screw or rear sight. Of course I feel obligated to pay the man, but now I need to send it out again to be repaired properly. I sent a straightforward but courteous email describing the problem and my displeasure at the fact the rear sight is buggered and I wasn't consulted before this hack job was done, but I am less than satisfied and don;t think I should be obligated for the full amount.
What do you folks think?
 
I think the gunsmith should contacted and given a chance to respond before bring the problem up in a public forum
 
I disagree. If he did that much of a hack job, he shouldn't be in the business of repairing airguns.
If a Glockmeister did this to a member's Glock, his name would be mud all over the forums.
 
If it were me he would be notified that he will be paid when the repair asked for is properly done along with restoring the damaged area to it's original condition.
 
If it were me he would be notified that he will be paid when the repair asked for is properly done along with restoring the damaged area to it's original condition.
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Yup. Take very good pictures of the damaged areas, and send them to him along with a note explaining how the supposed "repairs" and resultant extra damage is unacceptable. Ask (firmly but politely) that either they be repaired, or the bill adjusted to reflect the job(s) left unfinished and the damages incurred.

Send this letter by registered mail. This way, you start a paper trail, and he knows it. With most people, I'd imagine you'd get a favorable response pretty quick.
 
Jaymo said:
I disagree. If he did that much of a hack job, he shouldn't be in the business of repairing airguns.
If a Glockmeister did this to a member's Glock, his name would be mud all over the forums.
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The original question is "What's fair?" The answer is contact the fellow and give him a chance to rectify the problem. Bringing this to a public forum before doing so is not fair. If you were to make a mistake, would you want your customer to air his grievance on a public forum before you were given a chance to solve the problem?
 
MistWolf said:
The original question is "What's fair?" The answer is contact the fellow and give him a chance to rectify the problem. Bringing this to a public forum before doing so is not fair. If you were to make a mistake, would you want your customer to air his grievance on a public forum before you were given a chance to solve the problem?
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I don't think this qualifies as a mistake. If he had put the wrong sight on the gun but it still worked that might be a mistake. If he gave the customer back the wrong item that could be a mistake. He returned the airgun to the customer in worse condition than he received it and had the nerve to charge him for it. He damaged the gun and apparently didn't notify the customer. He performed an at best ill-advised workaround rather than a proper repair without even consulting the customer first. When you add them all up it's way past "mistake" territory. Secondly, I don't see any person's or company's name in the OP's post. So while he is technically "air[ing] his grievance on a public forum" he's done no harm to the repairman or his shop. He is asking for advice on how to handle the situation and has received some useful feedback. I'm all for trying ones best to be fair, so let's be fair to the OP - he did nothing wrong.

I agree with you and others who advised that he give the repairman a chance to make it right. What "make it right" will be is entirely up to the OP. If it were me I'd be willing to drop the issue if he'd be willing to accept a more reasonable fee of around $0.00. And a receipt.
 
MistWolf said:
The original question is "What's fair?" The answer is contact the fellow and give him a chance to rectify the problem. Bringing this to a public forum before doing so is not fair. If you were to make a mistake, would you want your customer to air his grievance on a public forum before you were given a chance to solve the problem?
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Umm doesn't sound like a mistake to me...sounds like some ham handed incompetence mixed with a little bit of apethy.

Sounds like he had a change to solve the "problem" but instead he decided to let it leave his shop anyway and send a ridiculous bill along with it.

My dad had to deal with that sort of guy a few years ago. Sent in a rifle with a separated neck stuck in the chamber. All he asked for was to have the neck removed. The hack (won't call this guy a gunsmith) rechambered the gun without even asking permission and then charged him $150 for it. The accuracy was complerely shot after that. My dad took it back to him and the hack actually said, "well see if you can find out anything about the problem on the internet". My dad took it to a competent smith, who said it was rechambered crooked.
 
montega guess by now you know he is NOT a smithy of any kind. Send him photos of the damage. Tell him NO money is comeing to him for the "fix" and caulk it up as a learning experence.
Be glad you did not send him a high end air rifle to screw up.
 
The original question is "What's fair?" The answer is contact the fellow and give him a chance to rectify the problem. Bringing this to a public forum before doing so is not fair. If you were to make a mistake, would you want your customer to air his grievance on a public forum before you were given a chance to solve the problem?
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I agree. You MUST give him the chance to make it right before dragging his name through the mud. Do it not, and IMHO, you're no better than your perception of him.
 
Send it back to him to "make right" and it could very well come back even more damaged, with another bill tacked on...I've had that happen with car mechanics...

"fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me"

I've seen no names being dragged through any mud..no name was even mentioned in the OP. I've seen no mention of him naming the man on the message boards if he is not pleased.

The OP merely asked if it would seem right to not pay the full bill considering his gun came back with damage that was not there when he sent it out. I'd say that is a completely fair question. I'd also say it is completely fair if he chooses not to send it back to this guy. Now if you mean he should give him a chance to make it right by lowering his bill...that makes sense. To tell the OP he should send it back...well that is unfair....
 
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It doesn't matter whether it was done through carelessness, stupidity, malice aforethought or because the Screw Fairies said that would work. Professionals know what's to be done. Begin the investigation and get to the bottom of it, not ask Forum Commandos for their opinion. Don't go public with it until you have results to report.

I suppose as long as this thread holds entertainment value, the barflies will continue to come to it's defense
 
It doesn't sound like the 'smith is a professional at all. He wouldn't get the chance to touch the gun again given the condition he returned it in. I would let him know as much.

Pay a real 'smith to fix the damage he did, and if there is any money left over after that bill, send it to the first 'smith along with a copy of the second bill. He did work on it, but he also damaged it. If the second bill is equal or more then the first bill, he gets nothing.
 
MistWolf said:
I think the gunsmith should contacted and given a chance to respond before bring the problem up in a public forum
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I agree. You MUST give him the chance to make it right before dragging his name through the mud. Do it not, and IMHO, you're no better than your perception of him.
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Uhh... I haven't seen hte name of the smith a single time in this thread.
 
I agree. You MUST give him the chance to make it right before dragging his name through the mud. Do it not, and IMHO, you're no better than your perception of him.
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Whats his name again?
 
Kliegl said:
Apropos of nothing in particular, there seems to be more petty bickering on a site where the mission is to be above it than on a normal one.
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I think sometimes people get "thehighroad" mixed up with "thehighhorse"

dawico said:
Pay a real 'smith to fix the damage he did, and if there is any money left over after that bill, send it to the first 'smith along with a copy of the second bill. He did work on it, but he also damaged it. If the second bill is equal or more then the first bill, he gets nothing.
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that is a very interesting solution.
 
Given the two options, I'll take the high horse every time. Sorry gents, I've seen too many cases of over-enthusiastic customers dragging a reputable `smith's name through the mud over a misunderstanding to take the low road on this one.
 
I haven't mentioned the man's name or his business, sheesh relax!

I wrote him saying I wasn't happy with the fact the rear sights were all bent and scraped and he is saying he didn't do that (BS) so I guess now we are at an impasse. He also says there is a 'spacer' missing which is why the barrels aren't sitting flush against each other, hmmmm when were you going to tell me that ? Never? Seems like he should have told me before he shipped it back. What really makes me mad is that if he specializes in 'airsmithing' there shouldn't have to be any hack jobs like this. A quick search revealed like 4 of these for sale, if he would have told me he was buying one on them JUST FOR the rear sight and he was going to keep the rest I would have been fine with it (they look like around $40 for the whole piece about half his bill).

Anyway I told him I'd be willing to pay for an itemized list of parts right now, and that after a gunsmith repairs the rear sight would be willing to pay him for his time with whatever is left of the original $85 charge.
 
Take the cost of the parts. Minus the cost to fix his buggering. Send him that. Many "smiths" are "smiths" in name only.
 
Given the two options, I'll take the high horse every time. Sorry gents, I've seen too many cases of over-enthusiastic customers dragging a reputable `smith's name through the mud over a misunderstanding to take the low road on this one.
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Sorry but I have been in business for a long time and I have seen way to many businesses not stand behind their work and their product. It goes both ways.

I see stuff like this all the time. "Professionals" want people to sing their praises all the time in public but they want "problems" mistakes etc... to be done in private. IMHO the door swings boths ways.

I have been on both sides of this type of issue and taking the good comments and the bad comments privately or publically is part of doing business.
 
You have to remember, alot of gunsmiths are like auto mechanics. They do most of their best work under a shade tree............chris3
 
I agree. You MUST give him the chance to make it right before dragging his name through the mud. Do it not, and IMHO, you're no better than your perception of him
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Given the two options, I'll take the high horse every time. Sorry gents, I've seen too many cases of over-enthusiastic customers dragging a reputable `smith's name through the mud over a misunderstanding to take the low road on this one.
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CRAIG!!!
I'll type slowly................he hasn't named anyone..........................he is asking about advice for a response to the bill.................................the "smith" (ahem) is not the victim here.....................he got crappy work done that he didn't ask for and than a substantial bill for the crappy work he didn't ask for.............................................he has taken the High Road for making the post asking what a reasonable response should be rather than going off half cocked.........................................what are you missing?........................................................................
 
I don't see ANYONE taking the "low road" in this situation. He had subpar work done on an airgun, and feels slighted by it. He came here asking for advice, which he received. HE didn't attack anyone or drag anyone's name thru the mud.....though, given the description of the "work" done, I'd be upset too. How is it taking the "high road" to simply allow the smith to rip him off? How is it "low road" to ask for advice on the issue while leaving the smith anonymous?
 
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