Bad Primers?

[Catpop]

I went to the range Thursday to test some new loads with my recently found Universal powder. Things were going well until a snap, then another for a total (off and on) of 13 out of about 75 rounds.
Now when I say snap, I mean just that- snap, no crackle or pop Tony. I and others figured a bad set of primers. I've been reloading for close to 50 years and I never remember a bad primer. The primers were properly dented, but no sound other than the metallic snap of the pistol. No movement of boolits to indicate a squib either.
I pulled them this pm. You guessed it, not a spec of powder. Hum.
I was using my 1970s Dillon SD. (Pre B model).
Problem: the powder slide pivot screw had backed out (again, happened one time a couple of years ago). I had caught this during my recent reloading session, but somehow those 13 got by me before I noticed a different feel to my machine.
I've had squibs before and know to check barrel and the like.
Learned: A primer can go off (with no powder) with absolutely no sound.
Catpop

 

[RainDodger]

"powder slide pivot screw".... what screw is that? What was happening with the press? Can you explain it a little more so those of us with SDs can know what to look for? Might help keep one of us from having the same problem.

 

[Catpop]

According to my Dillon manual it is called a "10 32 shoulder screw", pn SD-18. I think reason for no powder was the screw backed out far enough for the bell crank to fall off the shoulder thus shortening it's travel. The new SDB has a two part bell crank, a bushing, and a longer bolt with a nyloc nut on the back side to prevent this.
Before I loctite it, l'm going to call Dillon to see if a upgrade is available for mine.
Dillon has always stood behind both my machines. Great company and products!
Catpop

 

[Rule3]

A primer can not go off and not make a sound

You must have very good hearing protection or the range was really noisy.

Like the tree falling in the woods, if none is there to hear it did it make a sound??

So the problem (title of thread) is not correct, the primers did go off (you said?)

What caliber? The primer went off



All very confusing,

 

[Average Joe]

Simple, pull the bullet and look at the primer from the inside. You will have to do it anyway to replace the primer if its bad, then you will know if its the primer or the powder.

 

[Reloadron]

Interesting. My first attempts at hand loading were about 40 years ago and my first cartridge was 44 Magnum for a S&W Model 29. The press was a Lee Progressive as I recall. I managed to load a few sans powder. The primer was enough charge to make a pop and advance the bullet so it lodged between cylinder and barrel. I really hate it when that happens. The range had a wooden dowel and a plastic hammer just for people like me.

Following what I think was my third squib I gave up and bought some good ammunition, shot it, went home and pulled the rest. To this day I never had an over or undercharged case again.

Generally in a revolver the primer will get the bullet out of the case. While I never had it happen with a semi-auto I would still think the primer charge was enough to drive the bullet out of the case?

Ron

 

[Catpop]

Rule3----Hey watch that confusing statement, I may resemble that remark! Haha
I was not alone, thank goodness, to witness this.
I was in presence of 5 others, 2 of which are avid reloaders.
They too only heard snap.
Yes we all had on hearing protection.
No the range was not crowded or noisy. It is an outdoor range.
357 mag GP100 4" barrel, Fed 100 primers.
Autopsy revealed no powder in any cases,all primers ignited (black smut in case).
Boolits did not move, thus sealing sound maybe
You notice title had question mark.
So to answer age old saying. Tree did fall in woods, we were there to hear it and it did not make a sound. Haha
Anyway, I'm going to load 5 more with no powder and listen again. I'll let yawl know.
Catpop

 

[RussellC]

I've had it happen, several times with Tula SPP, and a very few times with CCI LPP. I had ear protection on, heard nothing but a click. Pulling the barrel each time revealed a slug lodged in the barrel...

Russellc

 

[Rule3]

Rule3----Hey watch that confusing statement, I may resemble that remark! Haha
I was not alone, thank goodness, to witness this.
I was in presence of 5 others, 2 of which are avid reloaders.
They too only heard snap.
Yes we all had on hearing protection.
No the range was not crowded or noisy. It is an outdoor range.
357 mag GP100 4" barrel, Fed 100 primers.
Autopsy revealed no powder in any cases,all primers ignited (black smut in case).
Boolits did not move, thus sealing sound maybe
You notice title had question mark.
So to answer age old saying. Tree did fall in woods, we were there to hear it and it did not make a sound. Haha
Anyway, I'm going to load 5 more with no powder and listen again. I'll let yawl know.
Catpop

LOL

I have "tested" firing pins and springs in my garage (don't tell anyone) With just a primer. I can definitely hear them! Even with ear protection. Actually pretty darn loud.

Adding powder does help move the bullet down range,

 

[Catpop]

Rule3,
But have you ever snapped a cap when the boolit did not move (unseal the case) and hear it as my situation?
Catpop

 

[higgite]

Two questions out of sheer ignorance of never having loaded for revolvers.
1. Are 357 mags usually roll crimped into a cannalure?
2. Will a roll crimp usually hold on to the bullet if the primer fires into a cartridge that contains no powder?

 

[Rule3]

Rule3,
But have you ever snapped a cap when the boolit did not move (unseal the case) and hear it as my situation?
Catpop

No can not say I have. I had one squib many moons ago in a 357 mag. The primer went off and there was some powder but clearly not enough. It stuck the bullet a LSWC real bad. Was a bear to get out.
I have had primers not detonate in both a semi auto an revolver(with light hammer springs), They did go off the second strike.

As to a primer going off and not moving the bullet with a really heavy crimp, I guess anything is possible, have not experienced that myself.

I guesstimate that in a heavy gun like a Ruger and the bullet not coming out, then the sound or flame of the primer was contained in the case and would deaden the sound a lot . Only thing I can think of?

 

[Catpop]

Me too
As for crimp, mine are not crimped.

 

[Catpop]

UPDATE: Talked to Dillon today, they offered two remedies.
1. Grease screw occasionly as the bell crank is under tension as it works and constantly trying to loosen the screw AND put a drop of fingernail polish on the threads to stiffen the threads up a bit. They do not recommend loctite in this case.
2. Should the threads in the powder measure strip out and not hold, return the complete measure to them and they would drill out measure and install the newer SDB screw assembly.
I'm going to try #1 first as mine has yet to strip the threads.
So there you are.
Catpop

 

[lauderdale]

I'd send it back CATPOP! Just my 2 cents.

 

[Rule3]

Why would you not crimp 357 Mag rounds? What bullet are you using?

As to the powder measure, I also would send it back. Nail polish will work kinda like Loc Tite Blue, It holds but you still can turn it. Heck have them fix it.

 

[Catpop]

Great advice guys, tx.
Why not crimp is a horse of a different color. The cliffs notes version is I get 1.610 if I crimp as short as I can on Missouri 158 gr LSWC. That will not fully chamber in my ruger, mostly due to the fat boolits in the throats. I love the fat boolits, they seal barrel extremely well and are very avcurate. Max as you know is 1.590 and those work quite well.
I had a thread earlier on this exact problem.
Catpop