Baerten Engraved P1 Superposed

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SafeGuy

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I'm new to this forum, so hopefully I'm not asking this question in the wrong section. I have a Baerten engraved P1 Superlite 12GA that I'm considering selling. As I understand it, the Baerten hand engraved versions of this gun are extremely rare as most were machine engraved.

I have a dealer/friend of mine who is pestering me to sell him this gun and has offered $4K for it, claiming he wants it for his personal collection. I've owned the gun for some 20 years now and have never fired it. It looked to be unfired when I traded for it, but I have no box.

Anybody care to give me some input as to the current market value of this gun? I haven't been able to find any others for comparison.
 
The best site I have found for comparison pricing of Belgian Brownings is gunsinternational.com.

IIRC, there were several Baertan engraved ones for sale, among others

Look under the Belgian O/U section
 
Thanks for the input guys, I'll check out those sites. Baerten guns are not that rare per se except in this particular variation. That's why it's been hard to find info on them.
 
oneounceload said:
The best site I have found for comparison pricing of Belgian Brownings is gunsinternational.com.

IIRC, there were several Baertan engraved ones for sale, among others

Look under the Belgian O/U section
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oneounceload, found one P1 Baerten on there but it had been messed with... recoil pad, ported barrel. Wood was less than desirable and the engraving looked a bit funky IMO. $4,595.

Maybe I should hold out for $5K or even more as mine is really slick. Great wood too.
 
engraving pattern

There are a number of variations of this gun. Need pics of the engraving pattern (pigeon, pointer, diana, etc.). Also the year of manufacturing. If it's a salt gun it has little value. If it's one of the few bicentennial superlights the value is in the 5 figures. Value could range from $500 to $20,000.
 
Tom Held said:
There are a number of variations of this gun. Need pics of the engraving pattern (pigeon, pointer, diana, etc.). Also the year of manufacturing. If it's a salt gun it has little value. If it's one of the few bicentennial superlights the value is in the 5 figures. Value could range from $500 to $20,000.
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First, it's not a salt gun, but unless it were pitted to no end, I don't see how you could assign a $500 value to ANY Baerten engraved gun. I'll pull it out later and snap a photo of the engraving. In fact, I can't remember whether or not I ever called Browning with the SN to see if they could give me any additional info.

When I traded for this gun some 20 years ago, I thought it was a Pointer based on the engraving and the silver receiver. Then I was told it was a P-1 and very collectable because of the reasons I listed. If it were a Bicentennial, I would think there would be some designation as such on the gun. I don't know if any of you guys are familiar with Matt Eastman who promotes gun shows in GA, but he published a book as a Browning collector. According to him, these guns are extremely scarce. Maybe I should give ole' Matt a call. Used to do his gun shows but haven't in years.
 
I don't see how you could assign a $500 value to ANY Baerten engraved gun.
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Sadly, there are Superposeds out there that are so trashed they aren't worth nearly $500 on a good day. Some people can't take care of a gun.

You didn't say what condition yours is in, though I assume it's not just a pile of rusted metal.:)
 
ArmedBear said:
Sadly, there are Superposeds out there that are so trashed they aren't worth nearly $500 on a good day. Some people can't take care of a gun.

You didn't say what condition yours is in, though I assume it's not just a pile of rusted metal.:)
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Actually, I did say what condition mine is in. :)
 
FN's chief engraver Felix Funken retired in 1960, ushering in a changing of the guard. Since 1926 the old master had directed FN's engravers with his Germanic influences and 19th century work ethic. A new generation of Artisans-Andre Watrin, Jose Baerten, Jean Diet, Lucien Ernst, Lea Van Laar, and Louis Vrancken were eager to lead. Of these engravers it was Louis Vrancken and Andre Watrin that became the chief engravers during the 1960's.

Under Vrancken's direction master engravers revived the old European custom of signing their work.....in some cases there may be signatures of two master engravers who both worked on a gun.

Jose Baerten engraved for FN from 1955-to-1987 and held the title Master Engraver. Baerten was highly regarded for his wide range of styles and gold inlay work. There are photos of his work in Ned Schwing's book "The Browning Superposed".

Some engravers are considered by collectors to be superior to others. Superposed guns engraved by Vrancken, Watrin, Baerten, Funken, and others will bring a premium over lesser known engravers.

"P" series denote presentation grade guns. A total of 1488 were produced in various gauges. These were available as P-1, P-2, P-3, and P-4. A P-1 is the lowest level with P-4 being the most elaborate and costly. Of 12 gauge lightnings, only 117 P-1's were produced. (54-P2's, 28-P3's, 20-P4's) for a grand total of 219 (12ga) Lightnings produced.

Each P-1 Superposed had a ventilated rib, deluxe engine turned matting on the rib. Chamber were chrome plated, and fitted with gold triggers. All external and internal parts were highly polished. Ejectors cocking lever and locking bolt were polished. Each was fitted with highly figured American black walnut and hand checkering at 25 lines per inch. Stock and forearm were finished to a high polish.
 
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Great post Rembrandt, thanks for sharing. I keep forgetting to take pictures of this gun, but I'll try to do that later today. All I have to do now is remember where I put my camera. :D
 
Yep, it's all original. Too bad I didn't have my good camera with a flash as to capture all the detail. The wood on this gun is really pretty as well. As for it being an "early" gun, I'm not sure when the Presentation guns (assuming that's really what mine is) were made, but I'm sure Rembrandt could tell us. Dates of manufacture are about the only detail he didn't cover.
 
WRT the schnabel, note that it has a straight grip, too. It's hard to imagine a straight grip with a big, boxy foreend.

NICE gun.

I'd probably have a hard time parting with it, if I had it.:)
 
ArmedBear said:
WRT the schnabel, note that it has a straight grip, too. It's hard to imagine a straight grip with a big, boxy foreend.

NICE gun.

I'd probably have a hard time parting with it, if I had it.:)
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I really do hate to sell it, but as with most of my guns, I really don't "need" it and could use the cash. It's just a matter of determining a market value and letting it go. I've all but stopped hunting, and this is not a gun I'd take into the woods or field anyway.
 
True AB, but they also made a slender field fore end - which is what I somewhat expected to see, or even their straighter 3-piece; but if it's all original, very cool
 
Liegeset5.gif
Liegeset4.gif

Browning offered Schnabel fore arms on many of their models, my four barrel Leige set has one with a release button in the end. To my knowledge all Superposes used a release lever located on the bottom of the forearm.

Not sure I can offer much more information without deciphering the serial number. Even though the photos are not the best that gun just oozes quality and should bring a good price....what that might be could be determined by checking other P-1 sales. Check with the Browning Collectors Association, there are bound to be some folks there that specialize in Superposes.

Here's a P-1 that Cabela's in Buda, Texas sold for $9,999.......I think $4K for yours is low.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/c.../967859_brn20p1k_bud.jsp?categoryId=SEARCH_gl

967859_brn20p1k_00l_bud.jpg
967859_brn20p1k_01l_bud.jpg
 
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oneounceload said:
Nice pics, Rembrandt - that forearm in the last pic of the Cabela's gun was the one I was thinking about
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Yes, those are very nice pics, but that gun from Cabela's has gold inlays where mine doesn't. I'm not sure that alone would cause that wide a gap in the pricing, but there's no doubt it added to the value.

There were a number of differences in the Liege vs the Superposed, but it's just been too darn long since I was in the gun business. It was a Belgium made gun, but it was very much one that was offered at a price point to compete with other brands.

Can anybody supply a link to the Browning collectors outfit that Rembrandt mentioned?
 
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