Baldwin Charged Again With Manslaughter

[Speedo66]

A new grand jury in NM just charged Alec Baldwin with involuntary manslaughter, again. He is charged with 2 counts, one a felony, one a misdemeanor, but can only be convicted of one or the other, not both. The felony can bring a year and a half jail time.

Let’s see how it works out this time.

 

[IJ1981]

Baldwin has to be held culpable. He pulled the trigger carelessly.

 

[burrhead]

Here's a probable outcome. His attorney cuts a deal in which Baldwin pleas nolo to the misdemeanor and the felony is dropped., He pays a big fine, does some community service, (Speech given to a local gun-graber org?) and a little unsupervised probation.

Nolo plea may activate some civil liability but I'd guess his people have taken care of all that as much is possible . Otherwise, it's a walk in the park.

 

[Anchorite]

Meh. A grand jury will indict a ham sandwich. There’s likely some political back channeling that revived this one. Will be interesting to see how it plays out in a (checks notes) blue state. Couldn’t be a coincidence. Just couldn’t be (shakes head)…..

 

[Old Dog]

We all might just end up surprised.

Baldwin has made zero friends while alienating a butt-ton of people, in NM and around the country, with his haughty attitude, insistence (in the face of forensic evidence otherwise) that he did not pull the trigger, attempting to shift the blame entirely on others, showing no sincere remorse for the death and the injury he caused to others, and seeming total resistance to even sharing a portion of the accountability for the shooting.

This might be the opportunity to take down an arrogant, narcissistic, lying Hollywood jerk by a community that decides to do the right thing and hold the individual who pointed a real firearm directly at another human and pulled the trigger.

 

[jmorris]

I think there is little doubt he pulled the trigger and killed her.

Just like Michael Massee killed Brandon Lee filming The Crow.

I understand why Sarah Zachry wants dismissal, being the property master and allowing a functional firearm and ammunition on a no live fire set, what was she (or he, if she identifies that way) thinking?

Instead of teaching people guns are evil, how about teaching them how to be around them without killing someone do to lack of knowlege.

 

[hemiram]

Ridiculous charge. It happens all too often, sadly. He's got $$$, so he won't likely be screwed over as peons are all the time.

 

[tark]

I have the exact gun Baldwin used. Of course he had his finger on the trigger. If he insists under oath that he didn't touch the trigger, and it is demonstrated in the courtroom that the gun cannot fire without the trigger being pulled, or held back, he may be liable for a perjury charge. But I doubt that. He will claim that he doesn't remember touching the trigger. That's why he is charged with manslaughter and not 2nd degree murder.

If they could indict for stupidity, arrogance and generally resembling the south end of a northbound horse, Baldwin would be serving a thousand year sentence.

But the most likely scenario was described by burrhead in post #3.

 

[JmacD]

If they could indict for stupidity, arrogance and generally resembling the south end of a northbound horse, Baldwin would be serving a thousand year sentence.

That’s a vast amount of the Hollywood set in general… haha

It should provide more evidence that basic firearm safety is taught for a reason! And it should be followed. Keep your bugger hook off the bang switch, or it gets loud…

 

[Styx]

I think gun owners and Republicans want him found guilty because of his political affiliation and antigun stance(even though they won't admit it). I don't believe he did anything criminally wrong, and this is just a witch hunt for some prosecutors and politicians to put an extra notch under their belt and on their resume.

It's sad that we live in a time that one's fame, political beliefs, and/or unlikable personality plays a role in whether they're the target of an investigation or found guilty of a crime.

 

[MikeInOr]

I don't think Baldwin pulling the trigger on a revolver handed to him is the crime. I think Baldwin, as the films producer, hiring a utterly unqualified firearm handler to save money on his cut rate movie is criminal negligence. If Baldwin hired some utterly incompetent friends child as director of lighting to save money on the lighting and a light tower fell down and killed an employee Baldwin would be held responsible for negligently cutting corners resulting in the death of an employee.

The crime didn't happen when the trigger was pulled, the crime happened when a friends child was hired for a key supervisory role that they were utterly unqualified for resulting in the death of a member of the crew.

If Baldwin is convicted of a felony will he no longer be able to be in possession of a firearm ever again? That would have a lot of well suited ironic justice to it!

 

[buck460XVR]

Baldwin has to be held culpable. He pulled the trigger carelessly.

^^^ of this I totally agree. His carelessness cost someone their life and injured another. No different than killing someone while driving recklessly.

The report I heard was that he is being recharged because "new evidence' has come up. I am curious as to what that could be.

 

[Styx]

^^^ of this I totally agree. His carelessness cost someone their life and injured another. No different than killing someone while driving recklessly.

The report I heard was that he is being recharged because "new evidence' has come up. I am curious as to what that could be.

Pulling a trigger on what's supposed to be a prop gun without live ammo in it while filming a movie is NOT the same as killing someone while driving recklessly, or one of us having an ND while pointing our firearm at someone.

Every movie old and new that has had a gun fight, military, or law enforcement scene in it has had firearms pointed at actors. Applying the same gun laws and safety practices, e.g., never point a gun at anyone, while shooting Hollywood movies or TV shows is ridiculous and not realistic IMHO.

The crime didn't happen when the trigger was pulled, the crime happened when a friends child was hired for a key supervisory role that they were utterly unqualified for resulting in the death of a member of the crew.

What New Mexico code criminal code is this? Care to post it?

 

[buck460XVR]

Pulling a trigger on what's supposed to be a prop gun without live ammo in it while filming a movie is NOT the same as killing someone while driving recklessly, or one of us having an ND while pointing our firearm at someone.

...of course it is. They were setting up a scene, not doing or rehearsing a scene, so there was no reason to point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger, especially if one did not clear the firearm themselves first. Very basic gun handling, anything else is reckless and negligent. Since Baldwin was also Producer of the film, he has to take responsibility of overseeing the hiring of all employees and the obtaining of props. He knew there had been live rounds on the set before the incident and also that there has been three NDs on the set in the days before the incident. One reason several employees had quit. There was so much wrong going on that set, it was just an accident waiting to happen and it did. He pointed a loaded gun at an innocent person and his recklessness killed her. Pretty simple.

 

[MEHavey]

I tend to agree with Styx in regard to ordinary actions/practices (whether good or bad)
in & around theater & movie sets.

(But...) just to get my own head clear as to what Baldwin is actually being charged with...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in
the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in
the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an
unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.
~~~~ NM Stat § 30-2-3 (2021) ~~~~

... which is a fair description of what he should have to answer to, regardless.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I fully stand behind Alec. Why? Because standing in front of him will get me killed.

 

[Styx]

...of course it is. They were setting up a scene, not doing or rehearsing a scene, so there was no reason to point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger, especially if one did not clear the firearm themselves first. Very basic gun handling, anything else is reckless and negligent. Since Baldwin was also Producer of the film, he has to take responsibility of overseeing the hiring of all employees and the obtaining of props. He knew there had been live rounds on the set before the incident and also that there has been three NDs on the set in the days before the incident. One reason several employees had quit. There was so much wrong going on that set, it was just an accident waiting to happen and it did. He pointed a loaded gun at an innocent person and his recklessness killed her. Pretty simple.

From what I heard he was rehearsing a scene , and I will reiterate again that it's ridiculous to apply typically gun safety rules that civilians and L.E. practice to shooting a movie. It's also not the actors role to make sure the gun is clear. This is basically a case of "experts" making judgments when they really don't know what they're talking about, what the standard protocols are, nor are they being realistic.

 

[MEHavey]

It's also not the actors role to make sure the gun is clear.

And there you & I disagree.

It is the individual who -- in the end -- is to be held accountable to simply
ordinary care where an actual/serviceable firearm is ever involved.

"...but everybody does it..." may be invoked as a defense, but "ordinary care"
is what the jury will eventually decide.

 

[Styx]

I tend to agree with Styx in regard to ordinary actions/practices (whether good or bad)
in & around theater & movie sets.

(But...) just to get my own head clear as to what Baldwin is actually being charged with...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in
the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in
the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an
unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.
~~~~ NM Stat § 30-2-3 (2021) ~~~~

... which is a fair description of what he should have to answer to, regardless.

The armorer was also charged with manslaughter which makes more logical sense. Hopefully, more information will be released to show if any protocols and industry standards were broken by Baldwin himself. It's not the job or place of actors to mess with or alter the firearms in any way. All the checks are supposed to have taken pkace BEFORE the armorer hands the actor the weapon. The armorer's job is to make sure the firearm is safe and ready. I'm not sure how an acter who is practicing a scene who is handed a firearm that he didn't load, was informed was safe, he didn't bring the wrong ammunition, and he otherwise didn't do anything wrong other than allegedly pull the trigger during the scene would be guilty of a crime. Either something is missing or it's a simple witch hunt. It makes more sense for the armorer to be charged, as it was his responsibility, then it makes sense for the actor to be charged.

 

[rhino465]

I think gun owners and Republicans want him found guilty because of his political affiliation and antigun stance(even though they won't admit it). I don't believe he did anything criminally wrong, and this is just a witch hunt for some prosecutors and politicians to put an extra notch under their belt and on their resume.

It's sad that we live in a time that one's fame, political beliefs, and/or unlikable personality plays a role in whether they're the target of an investigation or found guilty of a crime.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I disagree with you. In my opinion, it's 100% about negligence and someone dying because of that negligence. His politics didn't make him fail to observe the most rudimentary risk management protocols. His politics didn't cause him to point a real gun at a living human being, which was beyond unacceptable, whether the gun was loaded with live ammunition or not. A deadly combination of ignorance, hubris, and disregard for human life isn't dependent on political beliefs, nor is the desire to hold someone accountable for their wholly bad actions.

If you want to dismiss that based on your own political beliefs, it's your prerogative, but projecting motives on other people is unwise.

I'm no Republican (I think all political parties are inherently evil and are responsible for government accumulating far too much power), but if someone like Charlton Heston did the same thing that Baldwin did, I would want to see that individual held accountable the same way and to the same extent.

 

[jmorris]

I don't think Baldwin pulling the trigger on a revolver handed to him is the crime. I think Baldwin, as the films producer, hiring a utterly unqualified firearm handler to save money on his cut rate movie is criminal negligence. If Baldwin hired some utterly incompetent friends child as director of lighting to save money on the lighting and a light tower fell down and killed an employee Baldwin would be held responsible for negligently cutting corners resulting in the death of an employee.

The crime didn't happen when the trigger was pulled, the crime happened when a friends child was hired for a key supervisory role that they were utterly unqualified for resulting in the death of a member of the crew.

If Baldwin is convicted of a felony will he no longer be able to be in possession of a firearm ever again? That would have a lot of well suited ironic justice to it!

This follows my train of thought; however, hiring the best or most qualified, simply isn't the way things seem too be done anymore.

People seem more excited to make "history" than sound decisions...

Here are the history-making LGBTQ officials in the Biden administration

As the Biden administration celebrates Pride Month, it boasts an array of officials in its ranks who represent historic firsts in their respective positions. White House officials frequently tout t…

thehill.com

Thats nuttier than squirrel turds, really worse than allowing live ammunition on a movie set.

 

[Speedo66]

There was talk of other live fire going on by cast or crew members, so people had to be aware there was live ammo on the set.

There was also talk of Baldwin possibly intimidating to go forward quickly a young, new, inexperienced female chief armorer, which fits Baldwin’s persona. I can see him arrogantly bypassing some safety rules in a quest to finish quickly to save costs.

The death was not a blameless “accident”. Someone was responsible, either him, the armorer, or another party or parties. That’s for a jury to decide.

 

[tommy.duncan]

Sorry, Someone...anyone hands me a firearm and says "it's not loaded" it gets checked!!

Drop the mag...clear the cylinder, if there are rounds in the cylinder do not accept until the firearm is clear.
You all ways assume you are handed a loaded firearm. Now it's your job to verify.
She did not make it home from work that day because of an accident on the job.

I would have less problem charging Baldwin if he didn't go on TV saying the gun malfunctioned and he never pulled the trigger. He blamed everyone but the guy who pointed the revolver at someone
and pulled the trigger.
I believe manslaughter is a little much, involuntary manslaughter i think should be the correct charge, but, he should have verified the revolver when put into his hands.
This has nothing to do with the fact I am a conservative.

 

[jmorris]

Live fire is fine, done safely. These camera men didn't get killed.



Note they are not in the line of fire though and everyone knew the set was going to be hot before they even went to the location.

 

[jmorris]

Sorry, Someone...anyone hands me a firearm and says "it's not loaded" it gets checked!!

So simple, even a caveman can do it.