Barrel obstructions - here is where I get in trouble!

[Jim K]

OK, guys, here is where I get in trouble, big time.

The situation is a squib load and the bullet is stuck in the barrel.

Here is what NOT to do.

Don't use a wood dowel to try to drive it out. The dowel will splinter and leave you with chunks of wood in the barrel. So you use a brass or steel rod, right? OK, that will usually work. Some people will use lots of lubricant to help the process and there is no problem there, either. But some folks have gone far out, even recommending acid to dissolve the bullet! (It also dissolves the barrel steel, but it does get the stuck bullet out!)

There is an answer, which many gunsmiths secretly use, but which I have avoided so far just because I know I will be flamed and denounced as crazy.

Simply shoot out the bullet. REMOVE THE BULLET from a loaded round, dump half the powder and insert kapok or cotton to hold the powder back. Load the POWDER ONLY round and fire it. If the obstruction does not blow out, try with a full charge of powder. REMEMBER, NO BULLET.

For those who think I am nuts, check Hatcher's Notebook, where he does this many times, with no damage to the barrel.

Now, all of us have been told, many times, by "experts" that the barrel will burst. Why? Because that gas from the powder will hit the obstruction and stop and blow the barrel up and wipe out whole cities, and the country will be radioactive for a century. Well, not quite.

The "experts" don't understand why barrels burst with obstructions. It is not the gas pressure, which barrels are designed to withstand, but the heat which results when a BULLET is stopped by an obstruction. The kinetic energy of the bullet is instantly converted to heat, and that heat is what softens the steel of the barrel and allows it to bulge or split. Since the gas alone does not have enough energy to do that, the barrel will not bulge from firing a POWDER ONLY cartridge.

DON'T use a factory BLANK, though. That powder is very fast burning and can cause problems. Use the regular powder that is in the cartridges being used.

Let the flames begin.

Jim

 

[sm]

Mr. Keenan,

No flames from me.
I am quite comfy just wearing my Fruit of the Loom briefs as I agree with you.

Mentors & Elders did this, and over the years many others that worked on guns have as well.
Even getting a stuck wad out of a shotgun barrel because powder was not tossed in reloading.

You are good man, and as always I appreciate your sharing.

Steve

 

[1911Tuner]

Flames

None from this corner, either. A grain of Bullseye is usually enough to do the trick. Once in a while, it has to be done twice...but works well even in rifles, though two grains is often needed in 30-caliber cases.

The one situation in which it won't work is one that I encountered not long ago with a forum member who went with me to the range. A squib stopped the bullet in a 686 Smith halfway into the forcing cone...with the other half still in the chamber. Couldn't swing the cylinder out. Had to stand the gun muzzle-up and apply FP10 liberally. Let it soak for about an hour...Turned a cold-rolled steel rod down to a little below land diameter. Dropped it into the bore and tapped on it three times. The bullet actually reseated into the case. Jacketed bullet. Neat.

 

[Jim Watson]

I checked Hatcher's notebook and found no mention of putting crap in the case to hold the powder back. He said his practice was to remove the bullet and "elevate the muzzle to keep the powder against the primer." And he eventually managed to bulge a barrel with a bullet stuck right at the muzzle.
Even under the best of conditions, do you think this would work with a revolver? I don't, but then I keep a brass rod in my kit. Never needed it for myself, but it has bailed out some others.

 

[simmonsguns]

I've done it, the looks on the faces of the new smiths are worth there weight in gold.

 

[BBQJOE]

I have experienced a squib or two. Never had a problem using a dowel rod to drive it backwards out the barrel. No splinters either.
I have also used small copper tubing without problems.

I can't see why a charge might not work, but I'll leave that to you guys.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Jim W.,

No, Hatcher doesn't mention any "crap" in the case, but few of us here are in a position to fire a rifle into the air without definite safety problems, which is why I recommended using a light filler to hold the powder back. The mass of the kapok or cotton is not enough to cause a problem.

On the muzzle bulge, note that in Hatcher's experiment a bullet simply stuck in the barrel at the muzzle (as in a squib load) shot out without a problem. The bulging with a bullet at the muzzle occurred when the bullet was tightly wedged in, not simply stuck as with a squib load. While he is unable to determine the reason, I believe I know what caused the bulge.

The bullet was wedged in the barrel and supposedly unable to move. But when the powder-only cartridge was fired, there was enough pressure to force the bullet into or partly around the wedge. That slight movement of the bullet mass gave it some kinetic energy. The heat into which that energy was converted when the bullet stopped was enough to soften the barrel, causing the bulge. That explains why the bulge was at the front of the bullet (where the bullet nose stopped) rather than at the rear. The same wedging further back did not result in a bulge because the barrel was thick enough at that point to absorb the heat before it softened the steel.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

I am still reluctant to put stuff in a cartridge case other than a bullet. There are enough accounts of ringed barrels from soft fillers to outweigh the claims or safe use.

Hatcher also says that short ramming a muzzleloader ball won't damage a barrel. Maybe it won't usually, but I know of one case locally where it did.

I do not believe Hatcher was talking about a separate "wedge" when he drove that bullet into the muzzle. I think he meant it was pushed or hammered in as opposed to being shot.

But it would take systematic destruction of a number of gun barrels to restudy the problem, which I don't have the money or inclination to pursue.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Jim,

You may be right, but I think when Hatcher said "wedged" he meant just that.

Unlike you and I, he had plenty of guns and plenty of barrels to play with. If one blew up, he just got another one. That kind of job must be nice.

Jim K.