Barrel tuning question

[joneb]

I am mostly ignorant on this topic and would like to learn more.
I'm guessing tuning a barrel is a way to control barrel vibrations. As a reloader I achieve this with my reloads, but temperature is my enemy. So tuning the barrel to a load seems to make sense, what is the best way to achieve this?

 

[Hugger-4641]

Bedding, free floating, and barrel tuners are the most common. ways of influencing accuracy of a barrel. Brakes and suppressors can also have an affect. All of these do slightly different things. Free floating and bedding are intended to make the stock-reciever more rigid and take away any pressure put on the barrel by the shooter, which can indeed affect P.O.I.
Barrel tuners address the harmonic vibration of the barrel, which brakes and suppressors can also affect. Usually the affect is positive, but not always. Tuners can also be used in combination with suppressors and brakes.

Eric Cortina sells one called the E.C. Tuner that is probably the most popular right now.

 

[troy fairweather]

That limbsave tuner all tho looks funny they did actually work pretty good, I'd be looking at the ec tuner tho it's a big old thing.

 

[joneb]

Eric Cortina sells one called the E.C. Tuner that is probably the most popular right now.

Again I am ignorant, I am weary of snake oil.
I do not want mean to sound condescending but I am just trying to figure this out.
I have followed Eric for some time now on YouTube and I have enjoyed his input but...

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I 2nd the limb saver. I had my CZ457 22 Mag out the other day. Shooting CCI 40 grain varmint. I was bouncing around a water bottle someone left on the 200 yard range. Im impressed with the vibration dampener.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Again I am ignorant, I am weary of snake oil.
I do not want mean to sound condescending but I am just trying to figure this out.
I have followed Eric for some time now on YouTube and I have enjoyed his input but...

It's fine to be skeptical, but it is proven science. A barrel is just a tube. Like any other tube or pipe, sound resonates thru it. The length, shape, thickness, and material it is made from, all contribute to determining the natural frequency the barrel will resonate at.
When you fire a shot, this resonating actually begins before the bullet has left the barrel. Just like a cattle whip, this causes the end of the barrel to "whip" back and forth. Tunning a barrel is simply trying to control the vibration so that the "whip" is reduced or the timing is matched to the bullet leaving the rifling.
The Ruger Mini 14 is an example of a rifle that suffered from poor harmonics. The new ones are supposedly improved, but prior to this decade, the Mini 14 was known to be 2- 3 moa gun, if you were lucky. They came out with an accessory called the " Accu-strut" that did help improve accuracy by changing the barrel harmonics and stiffening things up, but it still didn't make it a precision rifle.
A tuner is not a magic fix it. If your rifle will not shoot moa, a tuner may or may not help it get there, depending on how bad it is.
If you have a rifle that's already shooting sub Moa, unless you are a pro like Eric Cortina, you are not likely to see the difference adding a tuner may make. It may trim your groups from 1 moa to half moa, but can you shoot good enough to see that difference?
If not, then all a tuner is gonna do is give you something else to play with and add another variable to your load development. After you have control of YOU and all the other variables in your loading, then a tuner may help.

 

[Chuck R.]

EC Tuner in action on my Bergara B14R with cheap TAC22 practice ammo:

You can see the POI change as well as the group size as I tune. It doesn't help with the flyers, they're still present, but over all group size get's better.

 

[Lefty38-55]

For guns you can reload for, and in lieu of a barrel tuner or Limb Saver, look up and follow the ‘Optimal Charge Weight’ by Dan Newberry.

 

[Walkalong]

When I was a very young man the old timers told you to work up from minimum (or close) and look for "accuracy nodes" along the way.

Everyone still does the same basic thing. Everyone wants a shortcut to save components and barrel life, which is good. Whatever we call it,

we are all still working up and finding accuracy nodes. Tweak as needed.

"Tuners" do it by changing the weight hanging on the barrel, vs moving the powder charge up or down. It's still best to have a good load to "tune"

with the tuner. It can't fiz a bad load or a bad barrel

 

[irishlad]

When I was a very young man the old timers told you to work up from minimum (or close) and look for "accuracy nodes" along the way.

Everyone still does the same basic thing. Everyone wants a shortcut to save components and barrel life, which is good. Whatever we call it,

we are all still working up and finding accuracy nodes. Tweak as needed.

"Tuners" do it by changing the weight hanging on the barrel, vs moving the powder charge up or down. It's still best to have a good load to "tune"

with the tuner. It can't fiz a bad load or a bad barrel

^^^^ This

 

[Litetrigger]

but can you shoot good enough to see that difference?

One of the truest and wisest statements I've ever seen on this or any other forum.

 

[joneb]

Thanks for the input.
I have always tuned the load to the rifle, but with variations in temperature it makes sense to be able to tune the rifle to the load.
I have a Marlin bolt action in 22 mag. I will try with the LimbSaver. I have some center fire rifles that are threaded and could use a brake, the MC tuner/brake would be worth a try.

 

[joneb]

Can a muzzle brake or compensator be rotated to act as a barrel tuner?

 

[troy fairweather]

Can a muzzle brake or compensator be rotated to act as a barrel tuner?

Yes

 

[Hugger-4641]

Can a muzzle brake or compensator be rotated to act as a barrel tuner?

Generally no. Direcional brakes like my M4-72 are indexed with crush washers so the ports are aimed laterally.. I suppose a radial brake
or compensator could be indexed to slightly different positions using different crush washers or a locking nut, but it would be hard to calibrate and probably not have enough range of adjustment.

 

[JFrank]

I don’t believe tuners will fix a bad load, if a fella wants a tuned barrel you need to go through all the steps necessary to achieve optimum barrel timing through proper load development. There aren’t any short cuts that I know of.

 

[bfoosh006]

The Browning BOSS really works... however, the constant tuning is a PITA.

https://www.browning.com/support/faq/boss-system.html

https://www.browning.com/support/faq/tune-boss.html

 

[joneb]

I have this AR in 223/5.56 that I will scope, I'm thinking of a compensator of some sort will keep the impact in the field of view at higher magnifications.

 

[joneb]

but can you shoot good enough to see that difference

My Howa 308 Win shoots 3/4 MOA with 150gr Nosler BT with Varget powder, if I could shrink that to 1/2 MOA it would be worth the effort.

 

[Hugger-4641]

My Howa 308 Win shoots 3/4 MOA with 150gr Nosler BT with Varget powder, if I could shrink that to 1/2 MOA it would be worth the effort.

My Howa 1500 Hogue in 30-06 was about 1-1/3 moa consistently factory Precision Hunter, which was the best factory rd I found for it. My hand load with the 178eldx got me to 1moa consistently. Adding the M4-72 got it to consistent 3/4 moa with my loads and 1moa with factory Precision Hunter.
So in my case the brake improved accuracy slightly, but its not a given for every gun. I spent about $100 to get it threaded and another $150 for the brake. I probably should have just sold it and bought something already threaded, but I liked everything else about the gun so I did what I did.
For what I do with it, mainly hunting, its not worth it to me to see if a tuner will gain another 1/4 moa. I have other guns that I have contemplated using one. My Savage 110 Tactical 6.5 creedmor is one that I may get around to using a tuner on soon. I'm still developing some loads for it, but it is just under 1moa right now with good ammo.

 

[joneb]

My Howa 308 Win shoots 3/4 MOA with 150gr Nosler BT with Varget powder

I forgot to add this is a with a three shot group, after that things go to crap.

 

[Hugger-4641]

I forgot to add this is a with a three shot group, after that things go to crap.

Yeah, I get about 5 before it starts opening up. The pencil profile hunting barrel just can't absorb much heat.

 

[Nature Boy]

My Howa 308 Win shoots 3/4 MOA with 150gr Nosler BT with Varget powder, if I could shrink that to 1/2 MOA it would be worth the effort.

If you and the rifle are capable of 1/2 MOA you can get there with load development. Without that the only thing a barrel tuner will shrink is your wallet.

And this is coming from someone who runs one on his target rifle.

 

[bearleft]

For guns you can reload for, and in lieu of a barrel tuner or Limb Saver, look up and follow the ‘Optimal Charge Weight’ by Dan Newberry.

Thanks for posting this, I knew there was a correlation in velocity and barrel harmonics.
My Marlin 30-30 seems to prefer the old Remington Core-lokt in 170 grain.
I'm trying to find the sweet spot somewhere between 2000 fps- 2300 with my reloads.

 

[Lefty38-55]

It's fine to be skeptical, but it is proven science.

... but can you shoot good enough to see that difference?

GREAT points, but ‘tis always best to get the most inherent accuracy out of your rifle and load that one can! No? At least for me that is a lot of the challange ... and FUN!

There are some great visuals for what identifying the node and load development can do for someone in this post below, this example applied to black powder !!!!! But whilst doing so, per the OCW method with my sub F-Class (limited to 600-yds) rifle (308 Win), I get repeated 10-shot subMOA one hole groups at 200-yards.

Importance of ‘BP load development’ to find the BEST group!

Here’s how I do it! GIVEN - Every barrel on any type of firearm or firelock - using ANY type of propellant or powdah - vibrates like a tuning fork when shot and the barrel whips in a sine wave manner, typically vibrating up & down like a looooong sideways 'S'. A node is where the barrel is at...

www.thehighroad.org