BurmKiller
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2006
- Messages
- 18
Thoughts and experiences with the Government obtaining and maintaining records of gun ownership? Do you think they do it? Have proof beyond just a general feeling? I do. Here is a little background and my story. Feel free to add your own:
First, the BATFE is not *supposed* to maintain any records of gun ownership, such as a registration. Each FFL transfer must be recorded by the FFL and assigned a number. The number and FFL are all that is *supposed* to be maintained. The law governing NICS is quite clear. It states that NICS "shall (A) assign a unique identification number to [each firearm] transfer, (B) provide the [federal firearms dealer] with the number, and (C) destroy all records of the [NICS] with respect to the call [other than the identifying number and the date the number was assigned] and all records of the [NICS] relating to the [gun purchaser] or the [gun] transfer." Now, granted, the BATFE can request a copy of the Form 4473 that is completed when a transfer is made pretty much without cause. That alone should require a search warrant. I am not entirely opposed to a secure mechanism by which, under court order and with just cause, the purchaser of a particular gun could be determined. Certainly do not leave this up to the BATFE's discretion.
The way this is supposed to work is that you fill out the 4473, FFL calls it in, within 24 hours the BATFE is supposed to destroy all records of the transaction except with the data above - which is clearly not enough to identify an individual without obtaining the FFL's paperwork.
(See Guns and Ammo article Here)
OK, now my story as to why I believe this is not being followed. I purchased a used firearm from an individual in another state, a 6mm Donaldson Wasp chambered handgun - an odd wildcat. Since it was out of state, there was a completely legal and proper FFL transfer involved. I completed my form, my FFL called it in, was given a control number, I left with gun in hand. All happy, all legal, all as it was supposed to be. A month later I was back in my FFL's store and he told me a little story... A few days earlier (3 weeks after the FFL transfer) a BATFE agent had called him regarding this transfer. The BATFE had my name, address, SSN, full details, everything. The BATFE asked what the gun was - since an EABCO BF 6MM Donaldson Wasp did not match anything in their database. (Agents words according to my FFL) The agent also noted that I had transfered several unusual guns. My FFL explained that I shoot in IHMSA and have several unusual competition pistols. Everything was cleared up, no further questions. Neither I nor my FFL was ever contacted again.
OK...this brings up some VERY serious concerns.
1) My full set of information was on file (No, before you ask, I have no criminal history what so ever) in regards to this particular transaction 3 weeks after the transfer.
2) There was record, by my identity, of previous transfers.
3) There is apparently a field within the database that contains gun make/model/chambering. If you read the regulations again, other then date and control number, no other information is legal to retain.
Honestly, this scares the h*** out of me. I immediately sent in my lapsed renewal for my concealed carry permit (so that no paperwork is required when I perform a transfer or purchase.) Beyond that I do not know of other steps to take, other then F2F purchases.
Just my $0.02.
First, the BATFE is not *supposed* to maintain any records of gun ownership, such as a registration. Each FFL transfer must be recorded by the FFL and assigned a number. The number and FFL are all that is *supposed* to be maintained. The law governing NICS is quite clear. It states that NICS "shall (A) assign a unique identification number to [each firearm] transfer, (B) provide the [federal firearms dealer] with the number, and (C) destroy all records of the [NICS] with respect to the call [other than the identifying number and the date the number was assigned] and all records of the [NICS] relating to the [gun purchaser] or the [gun] transfer." Now, granted, the BATFE can request a copy of the Form 4473 that is completed when a transfer is made pretty much without cause. That alone should require a search warrant. I am not entirely opposed to a secure mechanism by which, under court order and with just cause, the purchaser of a particular gun could be determined. Certainly do not leave this up to the BATFE's discretion.
The way this is supposed to work is that you fill out the 4473, FFL calls it in, within 24 hours the BATFE is supposed to destroy all records of the transaction except with the data above - which is clearly not enough to identify an individual without obtaining the FFL's paperwork.
(See Guns and Ammo article Here)
OK, now my story as to why I believe this is not being followed. I purchased a used firearm from an individual in another state, a 6mm Donaldson Wasp chambered handgun - an odd wildcat. Since it was out of state, there was a completely legal and proper FFL transfer involved. I completed my form, my FFL called it in, was given a control number, I left with gun in hand. All happy, all legal, all as it was supposed to be. A month later I was back in my FFL's store and he told me a little story... A few days earlier (3 weeks after the FFL transfer) a BATFE agent had called him regarding this transfer. The BATFE had my name, address, SSN, full details, everything. The BATFE asked what the gun was - since an EABCO BF 6MM Donaldson Wasp did not match anything in their database. (Agents words according to my FFL) The agent also noted that I had transfered several unusual guns. My FFL explained that I shoot in IHMSA and have several unusual competition pistols. Everything was cleared up, no further questions. Neither I nor my FFL was ever contacted again.
OK...this brings up some VERY serious concerns.
1) My full set of information was on file (No, before you ask, I have no criminal history what so ever) in regards to this particular transaction 3 weeks after the transfer.
2) There was record, by my identity, of previous transfers.
3) There is apparently a field within the database that contains gun make/model/chambering. If you read the regulations again, other then date and control number, no other information is legal to retain.
Honestly, this scares the h*** out of me. I immediately sent in my lapsed renewal for my concealed carry permit (so that no paperwork is required when I perform a transfer or purchase.) Beyond that I do not know of other steps to take, other then F2F purchases.
Just my $0.02.