Bear guns and current scarcity of Rugers

[duns]

I want to buy a packable revolver for bear country. Ideally, I wanted a Ruger Alaskan .454 Casull but they seem to be on back order everywhere. Has Ruger stopped making them altogether or does Ruger just make them in batches from time to time? There's a used one available on Gunbroker right now but the bids are standing at $1500 and the Buy It Now price is $2295, way above MSRP. They were available in the shops not that long ago for around $800.

I was also interested in the Redhawk .44 mag with 4.2" barrel but they also seem really hard to find right now.

If I can't find a suitable Ruger at a reasonable price, what would be the next best option? There seems much greater availability in Smiths. Currently available in a reasonably short barrel are the S&W .500 4", S&W .460 2.75" to 5", and S&W 629 .44 mag 2.625" to 5".

I was rather put off the .460 and .500 with stories of crimp jump and cylinders rotating the wrong way under recoil but feel I might now have to look into them in more detail.

Ideally, I would like the barrel not to exceed 4.2" for ease of carry.

What would you guys go for? Please don't suggest anything not currently available.

One thing I'm curious about is the alleged lack of strength of the S&W 629 versus Ruger .44 mags -- one hears about it all the time. Some of the hot cartridges (Buffalo Bore) are apparently too long for the Smiths but even with the ones that will fit, I keep reading that a Smith will be soon worn out if one feeds it a steady diet of hot loads. Has anyone actually worn out a Smith or is this an old wives' tale?

 

[OldCavSoldier]

S&W M629 .44 Mag with a 4-inch barrel. Ammo is relatively easy to get and is all the power you would need if you every had to get up close and personal with a big critter. Wear out an M629? Somebody is pulling your leg!

 

[Princi]

Taurus 513

I picked up a Taurus 513 last week. A.K.A. "Raging Judge". It is built like a tank and will shoot 454 Casull, 45LC or 410GA. In snake country I would load with 410GA shells, but in bear country: 454 Casull.

 

[NOLAEMT]

here you go:

http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=61751

Smith and wesson 629pd. 44 magnum, scandium frame, 25ish oz.

Edit:

Its not mine, and I'm not affiliated, but it is another forum I frequent)

 

[Deaf Smith]

I see pawn shop Ruger Super Redhawks for $650, in .45 long colt, and I bet they could be talked down due to the economy.

Deaf

 

[ECVMatt]

I just bought a Ruger SS Super Blackhawk with a 4 5/8 bbl to replace my Ruger Redhawk 4". I found it much easier to shoot than the Redhawk. They seem to available if you like single actions.

 

[Lost Sheep]

$800

Yesterday I saw a brand new Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan (2.5" barrel) 454 Casull for right around $800. edit: (Wal-Mart. not Fred Meyers. my poor powers of observation. Mid-Town store.) Fred Meyers, Anchorage, AK. The Northern Lights and Seward Highway store.

I will send you their phone number if you like. It would cost you a hundred or so for the shipping, handling and FFL transfer, but I bet you could buy it.

I did not examine it, but it looked through the glass in perfect condition. I was in the store a week or so ago and it wasn't there then.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep

 

[Shadow 7D]

Buy a can of BEAR SPRAY

Read the website
and DEVELOP
A very good sense of PARANOIA

That will keep you alive,
a gun, an attitude, a bear
that makes a news story
when they find the bones.

 

[Cryogaijin]

Last I checked, our local grocery store stocked 'em up here.

 

[duns]

here you go:

http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=61751

Smith and wesson 629pd. 44 magnum, scandium frame, 25ish oz.

Fabulous looking gun. Though those beautiful wooden grips may not be as practical as synthetic in this caliber. I'll think about it.

 

[duns]

I just bought a Ruger SS Super Blackhawk with a 4 5/8 bbl to replace my Ruger Redhawk 4". I found it much easier to shoot than the Redhawk. They seem to available if you like single actions.

I felt for a bear gun, double action was preferable in case you have to shoot one-handed while a bear has its teeth in you.

 

[duns]

I picked up a Taurus 513 last week. A.K.A. "Raging Judge". It is built like a tank and will shoot 454 Casull, 45LC or 410GA.

I didn't look at the Taurus range, wasn't sure about reliability.

 

[duns]

Buy a can of BEAR SPRAY

I'll do that as well as carrying a gun, not instead of.

 

[InkEd]

I have the 5.5" Redhawk in .44mag and think it's a great size for wilderness carry. (You don't have to ccw the darn thing in the forest.) However, if you want a shorter barrel than get one.

IIRC the SRH Alaskan in .454casull has been dropped from the catalog. Checkout the SRH Alaskan in .44magnum instead. (Remember you can usually safely load cartridges to their maximum when using a big ol' Ruger.) Buffalo Bore makes a heavy solid cast ammo that is pretty hot loaded for hunting or hiking in bear country.

I think the best real world advice for bear is to avoid them if possible. Also, I've heard the bear pepper spray works well. (I would say carry the spray AND the gun.) YMMV.

 

[ECVMatt]

I'll do that as well as carrying a gun, not instead of.

^^This is smart...

I can shoot a single action one handed pretty well. I understand that some would prefer a DA in this situation, but I like the simplicity of the SA in an extended wilderness situation. There are just less things to go wrong. You are on the right track, I would get that you think works the best for you.

 

[Shadow 7D]

It's not the gun, that's important

Almost all of the cases of FAILS with bear spray can be racked up to two things
Black Bears (esp. the 'socialized ones who know there is food)
and failure on the USER's part to get the spray on target.

NOT taking a gun, will help you MAINTAIN your proper attitude, met too many cocky people with a gun who think that having a gun will magically keep them safe OR are WAY to eager to blow something away.

BTW, more than a few Alaskans who have reason to know, stated that the only way the aforementioned hiker managed to kill the bear was that it WASN'T a serious threat to begin with and he manged to kill it before it became one.

In other words, the guy could have WALKED AWAY (using proper techniques) and been fine, and so would the bear.

 

[duns]

NOT taking a gun, will help you MAINTAIN your proper attitude, met too many cocky people with a gun who think that having a gun will magically keep them safe OR are WAY to eager to blow something away.

I don't believe any gun anywhere will magically keep me safe and I definitely don't want to blow something away. I just think its sensible to have a gun as an additional risk reducing measure on top of avoiding trouble and carrying bear spray.

 

[Princi]

Duns, I wouldn't worry about reliability with Taurus revolvers. The problem with Taurus is they have gotten expensive because of the falling dollar. (Thanks BO).

I wouldn't want to face a bear with 44 mag, and certainly not with a 45 LC. The 454 Casull is a great cartridge.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Right, just pointing out that EQUIPMENT is the LAST part
Mindset and Training are the first,
WAY too many threads here about
"what type of artillery for bears"
or
''Check out my new Bear Blaster''

And of course my favorite so far
'what load for a Taurus Judge in Bear Country'
on that one, the opinions were split between shooting the slowest runner in the knee, or applying a liberal coating of seal and salmon oil, so when the bear shoves it where the sun don't shine, it won't hurt as much.

If I'm going where I expect bear, I've got a bantam stock on my mossy with a 18.5" barrel.

 

[Rexster]

If I didn't already have an SRH Alaskan, I reckon I would get by with hard-cast bruiser loads in one of my SP101 or GP100 revolvers until I could locate the bigger-bore weapon. Plus, carry bear spray.

Alaskan guide Phil Shoemaker penned an article in "Rifle" magazine on the subject of handguns in bear country, a few years ago, and while he did NOT recommend the .357, he did address the .357 in a rational way, along with other aspects of back-up handguns in bear country, in a sensible manner. (I think his choice at the time was .44 Magnum.)

I have no Alaska experience, but have done much research on the topic, as Alaska is on my short list, if I am ever free of caring for an elderly relative, before I am too old, myself, to travel on foot. I got my SRH Alaskan by patiently checking the website of a local dealer, until a nice pre-owned sample showed up. I paid less than $800, perhaps much less. I think it had been fired very, very little, by the previous owner.

 

[skidder]

Pepper spray is like seasoning for the bears next meal. Bears also sense fear and you are much more confident with a good sidearm or rifle. I've had two showdowns with black bears and both times they left with a false click of my firearm. One was with the bolt of my 30-06 over a minute at 20 yards (yelling did nothing). I opened and closed the bolt of my 30-06 and the bear left. Same thing with the hammer of my .357. I do carry pepper spray, but when I hear a noise or come in contact with cougar, bear, or wolf, I always reach for my gun, by instinct, and forget about the pepper seasoning on my belt.

Now I carry a Taurus Tracker 44 for long hikes (much lighter on the hip), but I prefer my 5.5 Redhawk (You don't want to get me going why I prefer Ruger over Taurus).:banghead:

 

[NM Mountainman]

The Ruger Alaskan (and other magnum revolvers with 2.5 to 3" barrels) represents the triumph of marketing over common sense. They are not noticeably lighter to carry or quicker on the draw than revolvers with a 4" barrel. For most shooters, the 4" barrel magnum revolver is easier to shoot accurately and has noticeably less recoil and muzzle blast than the shorter barrels.

The gun companies are constantly trying to come up with some gimmick or variation of their current handgun models to convince shooters who already own magnum revolvers that they need to buy another one.

From a practical POV, Ruger could have sensibly (and more realistically) named their 4" or 5.5" barrel Redhawk the "Alaskan." But that wouldn't have sold as many new guns as a "special purpose" 2.5" barrel revolver.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Pepper spray is like seasoning for the bears next meal

You must be on a dairy farm, cause that's a load

Pepper spray is effect when employed correctly. BUT that means you keep your end up too, clean camp, cached food, alert movements avoiding places where you can startle a bear.

GUNS, also get you a nice proctology exam by F&G when they go over why you SHOULDN'T have shot the bear. Bear spray, use it and MOVE, the whole 'bears love pepper spray' IS TRUE, once it has AGED

hence the LEAVE THE AREA, on the label and instructions.

 

[Rexster]

Well, NM Mountainman, actually, for my hands, which are not necessarily like those of anyone else, the SRH is indeed a workable solution, because the grip frame, at the rear, is dimensionally the same as the GP100, which means the SRH is is a big bore DA revolver that fits my hands. S&W N-frames are too big for my hands, as are standard Ruger Redhawks. I actually wish the Alaskan had more barrel, in the 3.5" to 4" range, but the existing model will do. I plan to use .45 Colt loads, anyway. If the weapon is only really needed to launch hard-cast loads at a target a few feet or a few inches away, I reckon a snub-barrel will suffice, whether the adversary is human or ursine.

I actually thought the SRH Alaskan silly, at first, until I analyzed it, which included actually handling one. I also reckon that it will fit into certain containers such as belt-mounted pouches better than a longer-barreled weapon.

I probably would have been happy with the .44 Magnum version, but had a preference for .454/.45, to keep from having to stock yet another cartridge. I already have a herd of .45 Colt sixguns, but have not had a .44 Mag since the mid-1980s.

I will say a big amen to those who have dressed the importance of tactics and/or body language in avoiding the need to shoot a bear in the first place. A parallel situation exists with ghetto pit bull dogs; in 27+ years of big-city policin', I have yet to have to shoot a dog, whereas an academy classmate, with the same amount of experience, in the same patrol area, has shot several dogs, and I mean in desperate self-defense; he does not want to shoot the dogs, but he has no grasp of how to act around animals.

 

[pintler]

Almost all of the cases of FAILS with bear spray can be racked up to two things

Spray has a lot of advantages - cheap, doesn't require a high level of marksmanship skill, you can use it freely on bears w/o legal consequences, and so on.

OTOH, have you ever tried using it in a 10 MPH breeze? The brands REI carries aren't useful past a 5 MPH breeze (unless the bear is downwind, but that's the least likely situation to surprise a bear, because the bear will have smelled you long before you get there). If your encounters are all going to be in streamside alder thickets, fine. But in, say, the Wind River Range, you can spend weeks above treeline, and almost never see a wind as low as 10 MPH.

And it bears mentioning - in much of Grizzly country, encounters are rare. Lawd knows I have spent enough time there before backpackable 44's and spray were available.

All that said, IMHO 'backpackable' means lightweight. The 329PD sort of owns that class. It's not fun to shoot, but 44 oz 454s aren't fun to carry . Garrett makes a load specifically for it. If 'packable' means horse packing or an afternoon's fishing, get an all steel something.